Acrobat, image in CMYK w/o embedded profile --> Output Profile, no color conversion?

[Calibrero]

Acrobat, image in CMYK w/o embedded profile --> Output Profile, no color conversion?

Hi there!

I have a (1.4) PDF wich contains RGB and CMYK images without embedded profiles (DeviceCMYK color space). When I print from Acrobat Pro 8.1.4, in Advanced... I choose my printer profile as Output Profile. This goes well for the RGB images (and CMYK images WITH embedded profiles), colors are converted, but CMYK images without embedded profiles aren't converted at all. In my preferences I have set my CMYK working space to U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2. I thought that Acrobat would assign this to all CMYK images without a profile so that there will allways be a conversion to my printer profile. Well, it doesn't

My questions are:
- Is this the way it should be?
- What can I do to fix this?

I have fixed this for now by using Preflight within Acrobat by using the PDF fixups --> "convert to CMYK only (SWOP)" profile. This converts the current PDF document to CMYK only, using US Web Coated (SWOP) v2 as destination profile. I hope there's a better way so that Acrobat always assumes a SWOP profile when there's none embedded, and does a conversion at all times...

Thanks for your help!
Peter

Mac OS X 10.5.6
Acrobat Pro 8.1.4

 

[leonardr]

You are missing a LOT of information here to be able to help you...

What type of printer are you using? Is the output profile RGB or CMYK? Did you choose "Host color management" or "printer color management" in Acrobat's print dialog?

And can you provide a sample PDF?

 

[kire]

Pdf fix

Pdf fix

Hi, this can also depend on what kind of rip are you using. You can try to set the conversion there or you can download and try sw like Callas PDF toolbox and to the fix up in the device link conversion under the colors tab. After my point of view are the conversion done by Acrobat not the best way to do output. Just leave the embedded profiles in the document and leave the conversion to the rip is my tip.

regards Kire

 

[Calibrero]

....What type of printer are you using? Is the output profile RGB or CMYK? Did you choose "Host color management" or "printer color management" in Acrobat's print dialog?

Thanks for your reply,
It's a CMYK Canon IRC4080i, my custom output profile is CMYK. I need Acrobat to convert the colors because there's no RIP. Just a printer driver.
I can try to put the output profile in the driver, but at this point I need Acrobat to do the color conversion.
I did not choose "Host color management" or "printer color management" but I choose the printer ICC profile, see attached file.

All goes well for RGB images and CMYK images with embedded profiles.

The point, and my one and only question is, can I tell Acrobat "Hey, when there's no embedded profile in my CMYK images, assume it's U.S. Web Coated SWOP.icc and convert the colors to my output profile when printing"?

Thanks!

 

[leonardr]

The point, and my one and only question is, can I tell Acrobat "Hey, when there's no embedded profile in my CMYK images, assume it's U.S. Web Coated SWOP.icc and convert the colors to my output profile when printing"?

Yes, if you convert your PDF to PDF/X with an OutputIntent of SWOP.

Otherwise, the output profile for your device is considered the profile for any non-tagged data in Device color...(as per the PDF spec)

Leonard

 

[Calibrero]

Yes, if you convert your PDF to PDF/X with an OutputIntent of SWOP.

Otherwise, the output profile for your device is considered the profile for any non-tagged data in Device color...(as per the PDF spec)

Leonard

Thanks!
I really hoped that there was a way to let Acrobat use the selected profiles in Preferences-Color Settings (U.S. Web Coated SWOP v2 in my case) as source profile when there's no profile embedded in the PDF. I thought that was the whole idea of setting the Working Space....

Peter

 

[leonardr]

It is, which is why that profile is used when rendering to the screen or printing UNLESS you change it manually. And that's what you did when you changed the working space at print time. And so that new profile (working space) is used for your untagged images.

 

[Calibrero]

Thanks, you've made it a lot clearer for me.

So, when choosing an output profile when printing you are in fact changing your Working Space..... I didn't know that.... thanks again

 

[Hamid R. Soleimani]

So, when choosing an output profile when printing you are in fact changing your Working Space..... I didn't know that.... thanks again

Hi,

I don't think so. When you change the output profile in the advanced print dialog, you actually ask the application (Acrobat, Photoshop, Indesign,...) to convert from your document profile to the selected profile.

Assigning and converting are different. When your image does not have a profile embeded, the application will assign the working space, and it's sometimes different result. Suggestion: convert to your required profile. (one object only: Tools > Advanced Editing > TouchUp Object tool, select the object, Properties, Color tab, Convert to, and check embed profile.)

Hope this helps,
Hamid

 

[Calibrero]

....When your image does not have a profile embeded, the application will assign the working space....

Now that's exactly what I thought it was supposed to do...
I'll try your solution, thanks Hamid

 

[leonardr]

When you change the output profile in the advanced print dialog, you actually ask the application (Acrobat, Photoshop, Indesign,...) to convert from your document profile to the selected profile.

Correct, for all those objects that are in a different color...

BUT if you have objects that are UNTAGGED (aka specified in a device dependent colorspace), where the colorspace matches that of the output profile - THEN the profile is taken as the "working space" (aka source profile) for those objects.

Remember, in order to convert colors you need a source profile and a destination profile...

Assigning and converting are different. When your image does not have a profile embeded, the application will assign the working space, and it's sometimes different result.

Again, correct. BUT the working space is CHANGED to the printer's profile when you use the Advanced printing feature to change the profile.

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

So what you actually want is to proof "U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2" on your Canon IRC4080i.
Just be aware that that is what you are doing. It means that you will only reproduce colours that are possible both in SWOP and in your Canon, this may not be a problem, just good to remember.

 

[encompus]

Hamid is right on!

Marc