Buying a used Press Roland 706+LV Good or bad

[RGPW17100]

We are looking at buying a used press and have found this machine to be for sale. I am curious if anyone here is familiar with it. Is it good is it bad. The machine is 6 color with an anilox coater and has ink temp control with a sheet scanner. My biggest worry is with Man Roland bankruptcy and the availability of parts in the future plus getting service on the machine here in Minneapolis Minnesota. We are strictly a Heidelberg shop however this machine is priced better then any Heidelberg or Komori that we have seen. Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

[CD102]

If you buy a different brand machine, you are now going to have to maintain two supply lines for rollers, press parts, etc. There will be a learning curve for your press crews to operate the machine as well as learning curve for your mechanics. Are you going to save enough on initial price to make up for the money you will lose for the hiccups you will encounter as your employees learn the finer points of operating a different machine?

 

[RGPW17100]

We are using a 1986 Heidelberg Speedmaster that is not holding together real well. We have some trade printing we do in large quantity that quality is starting to lack on issues that can not be repaired on this machine. We saw a demo on a machine that is two years older that is doing both UV and lenticular printing. There will be a learning curve with a komori or a newer Heidelberg. This machine will be replacing the Speedmaster so we will not be maintaining two different lines. Our main concern is with the financial problems that Man Roland has gone through is if parts and service are going to be a problem.

 

[jminrod]

I just left a company that was installing a new Man roland had the floor dug up too specs for a new 8color perfect the press needed to be in by the end of 2011 they are still fighting because of manrolands bankruptcy they could not deliver and where not owning up to the predetermined contracts. The company I am with now which I am back at had 2 monroland 700's 5 & 6 color. When they where talking to a manroland crew about moving the 2 presses to a new facility they told them to try a different route. They said once these presses are installed and then moved it is a mess trying to get them to ever line up correctly With that being said both companies I worked for had several days where we were down for multiple days waiting on parts from Manroland. There is no next day air. The minimum is 3 business days, I believe that is anywhere in the US but we are on the east coast. The company I am at now has installed a new 8 color perfect UV Komori and so far so good. It has been in and running since 9/6/12 there where electric problems but that was with non komori part. They did step up and made good for any downtime.

 

[RGPW17100]

I just left a company that was installing a new Man roland had the floor dug up too specs for a new 8color perfect the press needed to be in by the end of 2011 they are still fighting because of manrolands bankruptcy they could not deliver and where not owning up to the predetermined contracts. The company I am with now which I am back at had 2 monroland 700's 5 & 6 color. When they where talking to a manroland crew about moving the 2 presses to a new facility they told them to try a different route. They said once these presses are installed and then moved it is a mess trying to get them to ever line up correctly With that being said both companies I worked for had several days where we were down for multiple days waiting on parts from Manroland. There is no next day air. The minimum is 3 business days, I believe that is anywhere in the US but we are on the east coast. The company I am at now has installed a new 8 color perfect UV Komori and so far so good. It has been in and running since 9/6/12 there where electric problems but that was with non komori part. They did step up and made good for any downtime.

Thank you for the response. This is the information I am looking for. I will forward this onto my boss and this might sway his decision.

 

[jbeniston]

Manroland's sheet fed division has been taken over by an English engineering company. The Langley Group. The machine you are thinking about buying should be excellent for your purposes. They have good service and excellent technicians who service the whole north american continent. Parts are not a problem. It's a Roland Press, it's all good.

 

[jminrod]

If Parts are not a problem can you post a contact number so I can pass it on. I two friends that can not get parts in less than 3 business days to the US east coast no matter how much they pay. If this is something new since the new company that would help them out tremendously.

 

[Francois]

Parts for manroland

Parts for manroland

Service from manroland in the US is still fairly good. They have cut down on the service staff and parts editors quite a bit. Prices have jumped up since the English company took over, and from what I understand, more changes are coming in the US.

There are however several independent companies that provide service and parts to some extent. TLC,Inc. on the East coast, Controlgraphics USA in the Midwest, Offset Press Specialists in California, and a few mechanics that went on their own. The R700,R900,R300 and R500 are good machines (R500 stands in a category of its own).

 

[Francois]

manroland technicians as well as well trained independent electricians and mechanics should have no problems re-installing a roland press. As a matter of fact, I used to be a manroland tech several years ago and continue to this day to work and relocate manrolands with no more problems than any other press.

 

[tkemerly]

Just my opinion....

The pad has to be exceptional.....The best that you can afford... (No short cuts, must be the best)
Some folks have had issues with getting the equipment to line up good again after relocation.......
Have a site testing performed before taking the press out to see what issues and or how good it is for register, grippers, cylinders, gear conditions, and the like...
Have the press site accepted again after install, (By same person) if the press is as stated the seller/broker/etc... should have no issues with a guarantee of performance after relocated.... If hesitant, beware..
Make sure you get the testing from both ends, most OEMS (Sheet feed) provide some sort of sheet travel analysis.
Hire an independent to assist. (3rd party, industry expert/professional, in case of any issues)
It used to be called the GATF SITE ACCEPTANCE test form, it use to be administered by GATF and it was performed by their people which you hired.
It is the best money you will spend on the entire install....

Just my thoughts...

 

[ondemandbindery]

I have seen second installs go bad on Man Rolands. And all other presses for that matter. A local Controls Technician which is highly regarded for his ability always said they were an electrical nightmare. But when all is good Man Rolands can crank out production. The only way I would even consider a used press like this is to locate one without getting a Broker involved. But that is me and I see how they are with Bindery Equipment. I can't even imagine dealing with them on something like a 40" 6 color.

Good luck,
JW

 

[tkemerly]

As stated by "On Demand Bindery"

I as well have seen and have heard from lots of others that the electrical portion on a Man can be a real hard climb to getting the equipment up and running right. I have seen some Man Roland presses that have about 30 to 50% of their overall downtime related to electrical.

You will most likely have to get connected with someone that really can correct the problems, sometimes that is a real big project and will cost a lot of time, effort, and lost production. Starting with the communication cables.....

It would have to be so good of a deal that if the bottom fell out on the install you still can make some headway. I really do not know if the effort would be worth the install and the more than 50% chance you are going to have some potently big set backs that you may not recover from without spending a lot more money and of course lost sales dollars due to not running.

I would have to consider the resources and be willing to dedicate a bunch of headaches and frustration to get into it...

Only my opinion ...

 

[ondemandbindery]

Good that someone backed me up on the electrical. At the very least talk to your Controls Technician you use and get his input. And I agree you need get it at a good price. A price that makes it hard to walk away from. I suspect that there is not a very long line to buy it.....

Good luck man,
JW

 

[loopyg66]

We are looking at buying a used press and have found this machine to be for sale. I am curious if anyone here is familiar with it. Is it good is it bad. The machine is 6 color with an anilox coater and has ink temp control with a sheet scanner. My biggest worry is with Man Roland bankruptcy and the availability of parts in the future plus getting service on the machine here in Minneapolis Minnesota. We are strictly a Heidelberg shop however this machine is priced better then any Heidelberg or Komori that we have seen. Any feedback would be appreciated.

There is a roland mechanic in the minneapolis area that can service your press. Do you know where the press is coming from? Is it currently in operation at a plant now, and if so, do you know the customer? If the press is in the hands of a broker, you most likely aren't going to be able to get a 'before' print test from them. I have seen many rolands, and other presses, installed by brokers and they were nightmares to get running right. They tend to 'slam' them in and do very little to make sure the press is up and running before collecting their checks. If it'll be installed by the manufacturer of the equipment, then you'll have better luck and they'll stand behind their work.

Do you know the age of the press? Rolands can be electrical nightmares. They are running with a lot less techs which could be an issue for you. As far as the parts thing.......have no info on that.

Knowing their history intimately......I'd go with a Komori. They are using a lot of the technology that came from roland, but are much more reliable and parts and service won't be an issue. Heidelberg isn't in much better shape than roland is these days, so I would shy away from them.

 

[Francois]

Independent manroland service

Independent manroland service

There is a roland mechanic in the minneapolis area that can service your press. Do you know where the press is coming from? Is it currently in operation at a plant now, and if so, do you know the customer? If the press is in the hands of a broker, you most likely aren't going to be able to get a 'before' print test from them. I have seen many rolands, and other presses, installed by brokers and they were nightmares to get running right. They tend to 'slam' them in and do very little to make sure the press is up and running before collecting their checks. If it'll be installed by the manufacturer of the equipment, then you'll have better luck and they'll stand behind their work.

We can service manrolands of any age, from the "old" rekord, R800 to the newer R300, R700, R900. Our techs were factory trained
and we have been servicing manrolands for the past 25 years. Electrical Service and Parts 24/7 from home base Chicago.

Control Graphics USA |

 

[loopyg66]

There is a roland mechanic in the minneapolis area that can service your press. Do you know where the press is coming from? Is it currently in operation at a plant now, and if so, do you know the customer? If the press is in the hands of a broker, you most likely aren't going to be able to get a 'before' print test from them. I have seen many rolands, and other presses, installed by brokers and they were nightmares to get running right. They tend to 'slam' them in and do very little to make sure the press is up and running before collecting their checks. If it'll be installed by the manufacturer of the equipment, then you'll have better luck and they'll stand behind their work.

We can service manrolands of any age, from the "old" rekord, R800 to the newer R300, R700, R900. Our techs were factory trained
and we have been servicing manrolands for the past 25 years. Electrical Service and Parts 24/7 from home base Chicago.

Control Graphics USA |

Factory trained......lol!! When was the last time any of your techs have been back to get factory training? Some things have changed since then.

 

[Francois]

.....Every time that manroland came out with a new technology, their techs were either trained at the factory or trained in the field. These are electrical engineers that went to trade schools and actually learned the fundamentals of electrical engineering, including the digital and fiber optics technology found on many of the machines. It is not very difficult to a legitimate electrical engineer to keep up and stay abreast of the technology. That is if you are an actual electrical engineer, not a grease monkey pretending to be one. Also, experience has a lot to do with the ability to adequately use your analytical and troubleshooting skills. Of course, personal abilities varie from tech to tech.

 

[john beniston]

We are looking at buying a used press and have found this machine to be for sale. I am curious if anyone here is familiar with it. Is it good is it bad. The machine is 6 color with an anilox coater and has ink temp control with a sheet scanner. My biggest worry is with Man Roland bankruptcy and the availability of parts in the future plus getting service on the machine here in Minneapolis Minnesota. We are strictly a Heidelberg shop however this machine is priced better then any Heidelberg or Komori that we have seen. Any feedback would be appreciated.

The Roland 700 series presses are beautiful pieces of equipment.
No worries on the bankruptcy front as the sheet fed division was sold several months ago to a British engineering company. Parts are easy to get and plentiful.
The machines are high tech and require good maintenance practices. They hold colour like no other press and have a lot of stuff you can add on to make life easier.
If you can access the electrical books(they have blue decorations on the covers of the manuals) and check inside the main cover at the top of one of the first few pages you will find the serial number of the machine you are thinking of buying plus the series number. Once you know this number make contact with manroland and they will be able to tell you all about that particular seies of this machine type. As far as I can remember they have technicians based in your area but you should contact them in Chicago(Westmont) for more information.
The 700 presses are arguably the best board presses on the planet.
The sheet scanner is called CCI(COMPUTER CONTROLLED INKING). It is extremely accurate and I think the best one those devices I have ever used. On later models the reading head had a spectrophotometer built in as well as the densitometer. You need to obtain a license to turn it on if you want to use it. Well worth the effort. Manrolands service guys are extrememly competent and you will be in good hands.

 

[Presselectronucs]

Manroland does have some good presses, and a lot of lemons! One went into California at the beginning of this year and it took them 4 months to get it running. That lasted about one month before it was down again. The cost for their cheap press may put them out of business. Buy a KBA or a Komori depending on whether you want a board press or sheet fed.

 

[loopyg66]

The Roland 700 series presses are beautiful pieces of equipment.
No worries on the bankruptcy front as the sheet fed division was sold several months ago to a British engineering company. Parts are easy to get and plentiful.
The machines are high tech and require good maintenance practices. They hold colour like no other press and have a lot of stuff you can add on to make life easier.
If you can access the electrical books(they have blue decorations on the covers of the manuals) and check inside the main cover at the top of one of the first few pages you will find the serial number of the machine you are thinking of buying plus the series number. Once you know this number make contact with manroland and they will be able to tell you all about that particular seies of this machine type. As far as I can remember they have technicians based in your area but you should contact them in Chicago(Westmont) for more information.
The 700 presses are arguably the best board presses on the planet.
The sheet scanner is called CCI(COMPUTER CONTROLLED INKING). It is extremely accurate and I think the best one those devices I have ever used. On later models the reading head had a spectrophotometer built in as well as the densitometer. You need to obtain a license to turn it on if you want to use it. Well worth the effort. Manrolands service guys are extrememly competent and you will be in good hands.[/QUOTE


Sounds almost like you work for manroland