Digital Printer Recommendations

[openletter]

Hello Everyone,

Right now, I am using 4 HP Officejet Pro X576 printers to do the following:
1) Color printing on 70lb 5.5"x8.5" paper (~50k/month projected)
2) Color printing on 70lb 8.5"x11" paper (~50k/month projected)
3) Color duplex printing on 11pt 8.5"x11" postcards (I cut these down to 4.25"x5.5" postcards after printing) (~100k/month projected)

A lot of my printing is used with handwritten style fonts so having a printer that produces an authentic finished product. I was told inkjet printers produce a more realistic look for handwritten fonts as the ink sits above the paper, rather than seeping into the paper like laser jet (not sure if this is accurate for a nice production printer though).

The issue I'm finding is that the HP printers are breaking down or jamming often. Also, I'm projecting that my printing will increase to the amounts above over the next couple of months. Therefore, I want a solid and stable printing solution.

I want the cost per page to be very low. Currently, I'm under 1 cent per page. Not sure if this is possible though.

I'm thinking I should go with a digital press but I'm not sure which one. I've looked at the Xerox J75 or the KM BizHub.

I’m looking for recommendations on which would be the best potential fit for my production output.

Thank you in advance.

 

[MailGuru]

Hi openletter. The volumes you indicated above (approx 200K per month) puts you on the low edge of what I call a "Mid-Range" digital production press. What you've been using is more of an "office printer". There are many manufacturers out there, and, you will get many differing views from various forum contributors. I happen to be partial to Xerox, but, the reality is, technology in this industry has grown to the point where most digital presses are comparable. In the Xerox line, you should be looking at a Versant 80 (we use Versant 2100's, but, that may be a little more power than you need right now). Others will chime in with their recommendations from other manufacturers. In the end, what you're looking for is a good solid machine that is backed by good service technicians.

 

[Stickman42]

I was told inkjet printers produce a more realistic look for handwritten fonts as the ink sits above the paper, rather than seeping into the paper like laser jet

You might have this in reverse. Unless I'm mistaken, wouldn't (liquid) inkjet ink seep into the paper and laserjet toner stay on the surface?

 

[Puch]

The real barrier here will be your price/cost expectations. No color digital press with a valid service contract will run at the 1 cent per page you've mentioned. I see businesses running like that, using old desktop machinery – no lease cost, no click charge, filling toner from bulk bags, buying parts at the local service center's back door etc. But there's no way to retain the cost benefits of this kind of operation, while introducing a new color machine with a contract.

 

[openletter]

Thanks MailGuru . Yes, this will be our first purchase in the digital printing press arena. Our thought is to purchase a used piece of equipment that will get us in the door around the $10k price point. Get our feet wet and understand the additional complexities of the printer. The goal is to enable us to produce more of the printing in-house instead of outsourcing the imaging so we can offer more customized products (postcards mostly, but we would like to do business cards down the line).

Puch Regarding the toner cost, I was looking at the KM C8000 and the cost is ~$52/cartridge which yields 90k pages at 5% coverage. Assuming I'm doing a 30% coverage (which is pretty accurate for me), this would equate to $0.013/page. This seems reasonable to me. Comparing this to a Xerox, it looks like it costs $125/cartridge and the output is 20k pages which equates to $0.025/page. Based on this, the KM is running at 50% of the cost. Does this seem correct or am I missing something (which I may very well be since I'm new to production printers).

Are there any other printers for me to consider at the $10k price point and given my needs?

 

[Puch]

You're obviously missing the huge cost of spare parts & installation from the calculation. You can't run the machine without changing drums, rolls, coronas etc. here and there. We have a fairly new machine (a KM C1085 bought brand new) and I see the tech persons changing a lot of parts to make sure we're up and running. Actually there is a crate full of parts in our room. I guess this little inventory alone might bite into the 1000s, and when they scrapped the motherboard (already 2 times in 2 years) they said it was 7000$ each. I was happy we have had a service contract then.

There is a new face-lifted version of the very reliable KM C1060-1070 to be introduced in February, named C2060/C2070 Accurio. That means KM sales reps have a huge pressure on them to sell the last C1060 machines, so you an get one at a bargain price. Also, after some months there will be a lot of used C1060/C1070s on the market. This is the printer our techs praise all the time. You won't need anything else just toner, drums and coronas in order to run them forever.

 

[chrisg42]

The availability of used KM C8000s at "bargain" prices should set alarm bells ringing. So many of these machines have been swapped out by KM, because they were finding the costs of supporting them to be too high. We were made an "offer we couldn't refuse" just over 12 months ago and now have a C1085, which in most aspects, especially reliability and consistency, is a far better machine.

I agree with the previous poster that a C1070 would be a much better option, but I too can't see how you would achieve the cost levels you are looking for, once service/spares is taken into account.

 

[openletter]

Puch That's correct, I was just looking at purely a comparison of toner costs. I understand that there would be additional costs for replacement parts but I presume that would be covered when I purchase a service contract. Actually, that brings up a good point, how are service contracts priced? By the age or the unit and expected output or a per page cost?

Thank you for the info on the C1060. That's great info!

 

[openletter]

chrisg42 Thank you. I've actually noticed that about the C8000 as well. There are a lot for sale and and after reading through this forum, I understand why. Thanks for your help.

 

[Puch]

Stay away of the C8000. They have a very bad reputation here, both techs & users hate them.

Regarding service contracts. As I see, the price of machines and click charges vary wildly across countries, because the willingness to invest and bare recurring cost is different. Mature markets generally have pricey machines and lower click charges, while developing countries can enjoy competitively priced entry-level equipment tied to a high click charge. So, the comparison is difficult. We pay 4.2 cents for a large color click and our monthly rent is 790 USD for a 5 year lease.

 

[msaeger]

Puch That's correct, I was just looking at purely a comparison of toner costs. I understand that there would be additional costs for replacement parts but I presume that would be covered when I purchase a service contract. Actually, that brings up a good point, how are service contracts priced? By the age or the unit and expected output or a per page cost?

Thank you for the info on the C1060. That's great info!

The service contract will be so much per page and will include the toner and other parts. For color it will be more than 1 cent per page however normally a page means anything up to 13x19 so for the sizes you listed you will be able to fit more images on a page unless you need to run on those small sizes for another reason. And for duplex each side is a click.

A new machine will be cheaper per page and if you buy a used one make sure you can get someone to sell you a contract before you buy it.

 

[PreacherManJohn]

Do not under value the value of a quality service company. Do a lot of research on them before making a decision. The KM company in my area has been more than disappointing.

 

[openletter]

msaegerPreacherManJohn Thank you for the additional info. That's very helpful.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

I would honestly consider it a fools errand to get into the digital press market with a used machine. True success comes from not being distracted by bull$%*# that an unreliable machine will produce. Having someone like Xerox be reliable for keeping the machine running in tip-top shape is absolutely priceless. Xerox, in my opinion, offers the most user-friendly experience while also offering very competitive pricing and above par print quality. You should be looking at a Versant 80, or the 2100, in my opinion.

Have a meeting with your local Xerox rep and tell him your situation, and see where he can help. He'll help you understand the true cost of printing now, and with Xerox.

 

[mnorman2007]

You might have this in reverse. Unless I'm mistaken, wouldn't (liquid) inkjet ink seep into the paper and laserjet toner stay on the surface?

You are correct Stickman, inkjet soaks into paper, laser is fused into the paper. Laser for the most part is better quality. That said, we use both i am driving we need the millions of impressions a month of the OCe JetStream. There are two new inkjet out by Canon that produce magazine quality images.

 

[pippip]

I would honestly consider it a fools errand to get into the digital press market with a used machine. True success comes from not being distracted by bull$%*# that an unreliable machine will produce. Having someone like Xerox be reliable for keeping the machine running in tip-top shape is absolutely priceless. Xerox, in my opinion, offers the most user-friendly experience while also offering very competitive pricing and above par print quality. You should be looking at a Versant 80, or the 2100, in my opinion.

Have a meeting with your local Xerox rep and tell him your situation, and see where he can help. He'll help you understand the true cost of printing now, and with Xerox.

Terrific post, couldn't agree more with all the advice in this. Entering into a new area is adventurous enough without giving yourself obstacles. Your initial saving in machine price will be wiped out in the long run. Best of luck op.