File creation for large and grand format/ Adobe alternatives

[David Milisock]

Not sure I'm posting in the right area. Ok we do a lot of window graphics UNFORTUNATELY! We get PSD and PSB files that are just awful, 1.5 GB files ad for 3 edits and a save it took 3 1/2 hours if we getsmart objects we just pray and get more coffee. Not one file but many dozens of files over the last year so I started looking elsewhere.

​I always did my creation of these types of files in CorelDraw and Photo-PAINT, for the above mentioned scenario we'd look at a total of 40 minutes to get the original 1.5 GB file proofed and cut into12 tifs for the individual windows and Corel has been great at putting in PhotoZoom Pro to enlarge low res images. The problem has been that while Photo-PAINT has what's needed for almost all prepress needs, transparency, masks, LAB, CMYK and N color, even layering, (called objects in PP) they have been remiss in adding features that fix the assorted CRAP photos we get today.

In comes their other product which I've began seriously testing, Pantshop Pro X8, the name in my opinion should not have pro in it but I guess it separates if from the lesser version. This product has been worth my time in terms of my training, it has built in features that easily take care of the off color, lens distortion and other image issues we get from the modern world in a nearly total automated fashon. If used in conjunction with the CorelDraw Graphics suite its a much faster solution to these problems

 

[kdw75]

I must agree that Adobe seems to be quite lazy in fixing the limitations of Photoshop. Now that we have desktop computer with 10 Terabyte drives, and hundreds of gigabytes of RAM, why should we have such limitations on file size?

 

[Stephen Marsh]

https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/us...e-formats.html

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photo...ers_please_increase_the_maximum_psb_file_size

Graphics file formats differ in the way they represent image data (as pixels or vectors), and support different compression techniques and Photoshop features. To preserve all Photoshop features (layers, effects, masks, and so on), save a copy of your image in Photoshop format (PSD).

Like most file formats, PSD supports files up to 2 GB in size. For files larger than 2 GB, save in Large Document Format (PSB), Photoshop Raw (flattened image only), TIFF (up to 4 GB), or DICOM format.

Large Document Format (PSB)

The Large Document Format (PSB) supports documents up to 300,000 pixels in any dimension. All Photoshop features, such as layers, effects, and filters, are supported. (With documents larger than 30,000 pixels in width or height, some plug-in filters are unavailable.)

You can save HDR, 32-bits-per-channel images as PSB files.

Note: Most other applications and older versions of Photoshop cannot support documents with file sizes larger than 2 GB.

David, are your customers saving files between 30,000 to 300,000 pixels in width or height?


Stephen Marsh

 

[TLPSfremantle]

why are your clients providing you with PSD files? 1.5gb is huge, are they layered? if you're getting these files from designers can you not ask them to keep the large layered file at their end and send you only flattened updates? depending on the image, it shouldn't be over 300mb unless it's being created at a ridiculous resolution.

 

[David Milisock]

I must agree that Adobe seems to be quite lazy in fixing the limitations of Photoshop. Now that we have desktop computer with 10 Terabyte drives, and hundreds of gigabytes of RAM, why should we have such limitations on file size?

IMO size is not the issue it's the lousy performance of Adobe products. Working with large image file 85" x 65" 125ppi or larger in Corel Photo-PAINT is simply a lot faster. It comes down to money and time is money.

 

[David Milisock]

To all we get PSD, PSB and TIF files and in fact Adobe Photoshop performance with tiff, PSD and PSB is a new definition of AWFUL. Layered or flattened Corel CPT or TIF files of the same size simply process in about 1/3 or less the time. Smart objects are a cause for slitting my wrists.

 

[dabob]

IMO size is not the issue it's the lousy performance of Adobe products. Working with large image file 85" x 65" 125ppi or larger in Corel Photo-PAINT is simply a lot faster. It comes down to money and time is money.

David, what equipment are you working on?

I created a file based on your specs above with 4 layers making a 250 meg file RGB in Photoshop CC15 on my Retina IMac 32 gigs of ram with a thunderbolt drive, saving it takes about 6 seconds and opening it takes about 2 seconds . . . I just don't understand how much faster it could get . . . even 50% faster would only save you 3 seconds on a save and one second on an open . . . .??????????

 

[TLPSfremantle]

David, what equipment are you working on?

I created a file based on your specs above with 4 layers making a 250 meg file RGB in Photoshop CC15 on my Retina IMac 32 gigs of ram with a thunderbolt drive, saving it takes about 6 seconds and opening it takes about 2 seconds . . . I just don't understand how much faster it could get . . . even 50% faster would only save you 3 seconds on a save and one second on an open . . . .??????????

Yeah I agree with this, i just tested on a horribly complicated file enlarged the crap out of it and i can still transfer the file and move it around in seconds. .KDW75, if you have a desktop computer with 100's of gbs of ram and 10 terabytes drives, can i have a look at it please?

no file should be 1.5gb in size if it's just an image file, i would have a word with the designer and get them to clean it up. . at best 250 - 500mb would be a huge file...But even at it's largest a decent spec PC using Photoshop handles it pretty well, certainly not hours.

 

[kdw75]

Yeah I agree with this, i just tested on a horribly complicated file enlarged the crap out of it and i can still transfer the file and move it around in seconds. .KDW75, if you have a desktop computer with 100's of gbs of ram and 10 terabytes drives, can i have a look at it please?

no file should be 1.5gb in size if it's just an image file, i would have a word with the designer and get them to clean it up. . at best 250 - 500mb would be a huge file...But even at it's largest a decent spec PC using Photoshop handles it pretty well, certainly not hours.

We use 8TB drives in our RAID, but 10 TB drives are out, and 16TB SSDs are supposed to be released early next year.

 

[David Milisock]

why are your clients providing you with PSD files? 1.5gb is huge, are they layered? if you're getting these files from designers can you not ask them to keep the large layered file at their end and send you only flattened updates? depending on the image, it shouldn't be over 300mb unless it's being created at a ridiculous resolution.

All the above and no THEY'RE IDIOTS, can you say LAYERS? I looked at the last file and damn near every idot mistake that can be made has been. We have to seam the file for a 54" printer so there has to be some editing.

I have a new file that just came in it's an RGB 240" x 183.5 at 125 PPI it's 1.92 GB it's a clean tif image that we'll take into CorelDraw and split into print panels. This opens and processes in Photo-PAINT and CroelDRAW quickly.

​Systems are reasonably powered GB network, 32 GB of RAM for a MAC and the PC both have SSD's

I have a new I7 with 32 GB of ram and a 2gb video card and SSD that opens then in Corel quickly but Adobe layering just SUCKS the life out of the systems.

 

[David Milisock]

Yeah I agree with this, i just tested on a horribly complicated file enlarged the crap out of it and i can still transfer the file and move it around in seconds. .KDW75, if you have a desktop computer with 100's of gbs of ram and 10 terabytes drives, can i have a look at it please?

no file should be 1.5gb in size if it's just an image file, i would have a word with the designer and get them to clean it up. . at best 250 - 500mb would be a huge file...But even at it's largest a decent spec PC using Photoshop handles it pretty well, certainly not hours.

You clearly don't work in grand format. A 250 meg file is nothing. And Photoshop can take hours with a large file. I had a 1.6GB PSD file a wall paper job with smart objects, changes took 18 minutes each, 12 changes, saving the file on a GB network 26 minutes. I have every one stay off the network so there was only the server and that work station.

 

[michaelejahn]

You clearly don't work in grand format.

Well, I guess you are correct, but several of our PressWise customers do and they insist on PDF files Can't imagine WHY anyone would send anything thing else, but that assumes they understand how to set the final image resolution / height / width

 

[David Milisock]

Well, I guess you are correct, but several of our PressWise customers do and they insist on PDF files Can't imagine WHY anyone would send anything thing else, but that assumes they understand how to set the final image resolution / height / width

Oh my God PDF files just crap out imagine 300 inch PDF files let alone 50' or bigger. Try working at full scale with a 5 page document each page 100' width x 65' height with building images on each with sign mock ups with drop shadows with an Adobe product. We buy quite a bit of grand format 10' wide x what ever and most vendors insist on tif files, when you have that much material invested you just can't afford a PDF screw up.

We see Adobe people all the time working to scale and then having scaling errors.

Back on to the issue of a Photoshop substitute I believe I've found a solution for this particular subject, first that file was certainly bungled by the creator but even once it was properly managed it was smaller but the issue still existed that Photoshop was just too damn slow.

So after some testing opening the file as a PSD in Photo-PAINT maintained the layers and editability and can produce the work in less than 1/3 the time. Problem solved, I have been testing Paintshop Pro also, even thought it is application color managed it has the quick friendly filters to fix the rash of really nasty images we get in now days so a mix of the three CorelDraw, photo-PAINT and Paintshop Pro.

​Actually even just import into CorelDraw maintained the layers and was much faster than any Adobe solution.

Soon I can see me kissing Adobe goodbye.

 

[TLPSfremantle]

what i was implying was that designers shouldn't be sending you layered files? they should be sending you flattened files and keeping the layered file at their end for any edits. if you're charging designers to make corrections then 3 hours of your processing time will be paid for?

also as a tip, if you create a Solid white layer as the top visible layer in any PSD file it can actually shrink the file size by half. It's to do with the preview information it stores. Then once you get it, just remove the top layer.

But again, why would any designer worth their salt be sending you a layered file? or anything that can be edited TBH.

 

[Macmann]

That white box trick is too cool! You'd think Adobe would shout that one from the rooftops. I saved over 30% in file size and a quick check of the Googles revealed this trick has saved some up to half! Thanks!

 

[dabob]

You know . .. I've been following this thread and it seems to me that while Adobe may not be all the Grand Format crowd wants . . . Ferrari doesn't make a dump truck either . . . you got to use the tools that make your job easier . . . why waste time complaining about tools that do what they are designed to do but don't do what you want them to do . . .

 

[David Milisock]

what i was implying was that designers shouldn't be sending you layered files? they should be sending you flattened files and keeping the layered file at their end for any edits. if you're charging designers to make corrections then 3 hours of your processing time will be paid for?

also as a tip, if you create a Solid white layer as the top visible layer in any PSD file it can actually shrink the file size by half. It's to do with the preview information it stores. Then once you get it, just remove the top layer.

But again, why would any designer worth their salt be sending you a layered file? or anything that can be edited TBH.

Because they have no idea how to design for output! Ever see a vehicle wrap or a multi-window mosaic created by so designer.

 

[David Milisock]

You know . .. I've been following this thread and it seems to me that while Adobe may not be all the Grand Format crowd wants . . . Ferrari doesn't make a dump truck either . . . you got to use the tools that make your job easier . . . why waste time complaining about tools that do what they are designed to do but don't do what you want them to do . . .

I agree which is why I posted alternatives, because of designer incompetence I have settled on making the designers send PSD files if they must us Photoshop which we will take into CorelDraw and process from there.

​The bite is not as much the Adobe products, while clearly they are not grand format material, they're being used poorly.