Kodak Magnus 400 Autofeed Paper Disposal System. Bad design?

[lithotechnic]

We keep having problems with the automatic paper disposal system on our machine.
Our Kodak rep insists that this is normal and we should just keep replacing the rubber tubes around the grabbers and the grabbers themselves. (I don't know how else to call them. They grab the paper with friction after all)

My opinion is that this method of disposing the paper is plain silly. The paper could easily be disposed using the suction cups that are already used to grab the plate.

Also those rubber bands are ridiculously expensive for what they are!

Anyone else experiencing problems like us? According to the local representative we must be the only ones

 

[PACH]

We keep having problems with the automatic paper disposal system on our machine.
Our Kodak rep insists that this is normal and we should just keep replacing the rubber tubes around the grabbers and the grabbers themselves. (I don't know how else to call them. They grab the paper with friction after all)

My opinion is that this method of disposing the paper is plain silly. The paper could easily be disposed using the suction cups that are already used to grab the plate.

Also those rubber bands are ridiculously expensive for what they are!

Anyone else experiencing problems like us? According to the local representative we must be the only ones

What you need is a technician ( who knows the machine well) that needs to set up the steps of the X/Y loading system so the paper is grabbed correctly and moved to the right place and disposed of.
If this is not adjusted correctly, the tweezers get bent and the rubber parts are worn off by the disposal rollers. All the changes are done in the registry of the machine.
I am afraid that you will not be able to redesign the machine so the suckers pick and dispose of the paper.
Good luck.

 

[ansoft]

Hi,
PACH is right that you need a good technician and do all the suggested, but you can do several things to improve the sheet removing. They are from my own experience and look sometimes crazy.
1. increase the humidity in the room to 40-60% without condensation and no more than 5% per hour. Keep this humidity stable.
2. When you put the plates in the autoloader, put some air between them as the printer puts air between the sheets before loading in the printing machine.
3. Put both side limiters to the plates and check the air blowing in the cassette. You could increase the air, but sometime you will experience paper curving.
4. The most interesting think is that sometime if you put some glycerin on the tweezers it will improve the sheet removal. It works when the rubber is worn.
Luck!

 

[PACH]

We keep having problems with the automatic paper disposal system on our machine.
Our Kodak rep insists that this is normal and we should just keep replacing the rubber tubes around the grabbers and the grabbers themselves. (I don't know how else to call them. They grab the paper with friction after all)

My opinion is that this method of disposing the paper is plain silly. The paper could easily be disposed using the suction cups that are already used to grab the plate.

Also those rubber bands are ridiculously expensive for what they are!

Anyone else experiencing problems like us? According to the local representative we must be the only ones

I wanted originaly to ask you about the plates that you are using as the papaer varies between manufacturers. Some are picked up and disposed easier than others.

 

[lithotechnic]

Hi,

thanks for your replies, and to answer both:

-We have tried multiple plates including Kodak Electra XL.
-2 local technicians plus the regional Service director with a Kodak technician have taken a peek on the X Y settings with not much improvement
-We most certainly don't have low humidity since where we are based the average humidity is 50% throughout the year
-Besides that we air the plates before we place them in the cassette, the local technicians have "patched" our system to blow some air between the plates as the first step of the paper disposal process.

I didn't really understand what ansoft meant about the side limiters. Did you mean to use the "cheaters" so that we can look at the process while its being performed?

I like the glycerin idea. Will definitely give it a try

 

[ansoft]

Hi,
Side limiters are two metal things (I do not know the word for them), when you put the plates in the cassette, you align them with these side limiters. They are connected with a kind of chain.
I hope you understand

 

[PACH]

Hi,
Side limiters are two metal things (I do not know the word for them), when you put the plates in the cassette, you align them with these side limiters. They are connected with a kind of chain.
I hope you understand

By the way if you have 3 cassettes only in one of the cassettes will bring in these aligning brackets together as in the other two you have to move them separately. These only align your plates to the centre of the cassette and will not improve your paper disposal. If the tweezers grab the plates well then movements ( steps) in the X and Y direction are VERY important. If the tweezers touch the paper disposal rollers then the adjustment is not correct. All these small adjustments have to be made in the REGISTRY of the Magnus.

 

[ansoft]

PACH,
I ablsolutely agree with you. These small adjustments are very very important. I just mentioned the unusual things about the problem. These brackets actually prevent double loading.
But any way, lithotechnic need good and skilled service man.
Good Luck!

 

[lithotechnic]

We only have one cassete (was a bad decision not to get a second one) and it's the one with the centre aligning brackets.
I think the root of our problem is where we are based. Small country, small population, very few skilled service men, and seems none of them working for Kodak.

But all in all, I still find the price for those pieces of rubber on the tweezers ridiculous. I don't know about you guys but they charge us around €40 for each of them and according to them we should replace them as soon as we see that they've worn out. And that happens in around a months time. So to replace 4x€40 x 12 months that's €1,920 per year. And for what?

 

[ansoft]

lithotechnic,
I am from a small country and I experience the same problems.
About the price of the tweezers, the price is the same for me, but....
I have to change the tweezers every year, not every month.
Kodak guys sometimes are very good, but if they do not have many machines in your country it is impossible to become good in the job.
Sorry but this is the truth!

 

[PACH]

We only have one cassete (was a bad decision not to get a second one) and it's the one with the centre aligning brackets.
I think the root of our problem is where we are based. Small country, small population, very few skilled service men, and seems none of them working for Kodak.

But all in all, I still find the price for those pieces of rubber on the tweezers ridiculous. I don't know about you guys but they charge us around €40 for each of them and according to them we should replace them as soon as we see that they've worn out. And that happens in around a months time. So to replace 4x€40 x 12 months that's €1,920 per year. And for what?

Did you try and have the front door open with the Cheeter in and do a load from the Loading System and watch what exactly is going on? Maybe they are pressing too hard when they are picking the plates up or rubbing against the disposal rollers when the are getting rid of the paper.

 

[lithotechnic]

Did you try and have the front door open with the Cheeter in and do a load from the Loading System and watch what exactly is going on? Maybe they are pressing too hard when they are picking the plates up or rubbing against the disposal rollers when the are getting rid of the paper.

The technicians used this method to adjust the x y movement.
I have also observed the process myself. They don't seem to be pressing too hard on the plates and they are definitely not rubbing against the rollers.

As I said at the beginning, in my opinion this system could have been designed much better.
I am not hoping to change the mechanism for our machine, but I hope that Kodak takes this into consideration when they come up with a new model.
I mean come on, we've had sheetfed printing machines feeding sheets of paper with incredible speed and accuracy for years now. Couldn't they have come up with a suction cup-system for paper disposal?
It's not like we are talking about cutting edge technology here.

 

[PACH]

The technicians used this method to adjust the x y movement.
I have also observed the process myself. They don't seem to be pressing too hard on the plates and they are definitely not rubbing against the rollers.

As I said at the beginning, in my opinion this system could have been designed much better.
I am not hoping to change the mechanism for our machine, but I hope that Kodak takes this into consideration when they come up with a new model.
I mean come on, we've had sheetfed printing machines feeding sheets of paper with incredible speed and accuracy for years now. Couldn't they have come up with a suction cup-system for paper disposal?
It's not like we are talking about cutting edge technology here.

So please explain what exactly is happening. Is the paper picked up well and transported to the dissposal rollers? Does the paper come down where the rollers are and it is grabed and the paper relaesed without the tweezers touching the rollers? Have you got the tweezers that look like a T where the paper is held? Do the small tube like soft rubber rollers wear out?

 

[lithotechnic]

So please explain what exactly is happening. Is the paper picked up well and transported to the dissposal rollers? Does the paper come down where the rollers are and it is grabed and the paper relaesed without the tweezers touching the rollers? Have you got the tweezers that look like a T where the paper is held? Do the small tube like soft rubber rollers wear out?

The paper is disposed and yes the paper is released without the tweezers touching the rollers. Also we DO have the tweezers that look like a T and the problem now is that the soft rubber bands on the tweezers wear out very easily.

I am not a service man but to my understanding the process has three aspects that we have to look out for.
1) if the paper is being grabbed. If its not then you can adjust the tweezers to use more pressure (by moving more downwards) to grab it tighter
2) if they grab it too tight the paper might just rip apart on the next stage when the disposal rollers try to snatch it away from the tweezers
3) if the x y settings are bad then the rollers will be grinding the rubber on the tweezers

Is this correct?

 

[PACH]

The paper is disposed and yes the paper is released without the tweezers touching the rollers. Also we DO have the tweezers that look like a T and the problem now is that the soft rubber bands on the tweezers wear out very easily.

I am not a service man but to my understanding the process has three aspects that we have to look out for.
1) if the paper is being grabbed. If its not then you can adjust the tweezers to use more pressure (by moving more downwards) to grab it tighter
2) if they grab it too tight the paper might just rip apart on the next stage when the disposal rollers try to snatch it away from the tweezers
3) if the x y settings are bad then the rollers will be grinding the rubber on the tweezers

Is this correct?

Also, the angle between the two tweezers has to be as when it was new.

 

[nemo]

Spread the tweezers - they tend to get closer in time - just make sure they get together when closed and btw there is an option to use suction cups to remove paper...