looking for a new machine

[Robertjohn]

Not bashing anyone. I work for KM. I was following this post. if you are doing 50k-65k per month you need a 5501 or 6501. With the production machines, you will be able to expand into different avenues if/when you need to. ie: booklet making,gbc punches, paper and staple trimming, etc.
With the C552 you are stuck with typical day to day office options. The C552 DOES NOT DO TRUE BOOKLET. It's a center fold and center staple. In Manhattan (I work in Manhattan) last year we put 17 machines into Amazon.com for books.
KM uses glue (which come in chicklets) to bind, as opposed to the xerox machines using tape at the spine.

-Service is dependent by Branch for KM or by independent Agent for Xerox. Look into the Konica-Minolta Vcare information. I think your rep needs to sit down with you, because they haven't talked about the important information, with is Service.

-To say Xerox is Herpes, would be a bash and I'm not into that. I happen to think they make a good product. What I don't like is that their service is dependent on Agents (not Direct), and that you buy paper from them, which they tell their clients is the preferred paper for their machines. It's standard paper that they mark up. This seems to be a way to make extra on the back end which isn't fair most of the time for the client.

 

[bigben]

Not bashing anyone. I work for KM. I was following this post. if you are doing 50k-65k per month you need a 5501 or 6501. With the production machines, you will be able to expand into different avenues if/when you need to. ie: booklet making,gbc punches, paper and staple trimming, etc.
With the C552 you are stuck with typical day to day office options. The C552 DOES NOT DO TRUE BOOKLET. It's a center fold and center staple. In Manhattan (I work in Manhattan) last year we put 17 machines into Amazon.com for books.
KM uses glue (which come in chicklets) to bind, as opposed to the xerox machines using tape at the spine.

-Service is dependent by Branch for KM or by independent Agent for Xerox. Look into the Konica-Minolta Vcare information. I think your rep needs to sit down with you, because they haven't talked about the important information, with is Service.

-To say Xerox is Herpes, would be a bash and I'm not into that. I happen to think they make a good product. What I don't like is that their service is dependent on Agents (not Direct), and that you buy paper from them, which they tell their clients is the preferred paper for their machines. It's standard paper that they mark up. This seems to be a way to make extra on the back end which isn't fair most of the time for the client.

Ok, so you confirm what everyone said about the C552 for my use. Now I have to decide if the C5501 will be good enough or if I need to go with the C6501...

And what do you mean by the C552 don't make ''real'' booklet? what would be the difference with the C5501 for example?

 

[Robertjohn]

Honestly, you should probably be talking to your rep instead of a post. Our job in the company is to help you make an informed decision based on site surveys and talking to you.
Just like any machine (doesn't matter what company) at it's level, the C552 booklet finisher doesn't have a trim option on it. So when folding, let's say 40 pages, the booklet looks off. The C5501 and C6501 has perfect trim and folds each sheet of paper individually. So the finish looks pristine (and a noticeable better fold). Again, you should go in for a demonstration, and you will see the difference.

 

[bigben]

Honestly, you should probably be talking to your rep instead of a post. Our job in the company is to help you make an informed decision based on site surveys and talking to you.
Just like any machine (doesn't matter what company) at it's level, the C552 booklet finisher doesn't have a trim option on it. So when folding, let's say 40 pages, the booklet looks off. The C5501 and C6501 has perfect trim and folds each sheet of paper individually. So the finish looks pristine (and a noticeable better fold). Again, you should go in for a demonstration, and you will see the difference.

Thanks. I have an appointment tomorrow with KM. I just wanted to ask here first to compared their answers.

Thanks again.

 

[Robertjohn]

No problem. Please don't be afraid to voice any questions or particulars about your business. The more forward you are about your business, the better your results will be when it comes to proposal time. To many people don't divulge information, which makes the reps life tough for solutions.

Best of luck

 

[UberTech]

-To say Xerox is Herpes, would be a bash and I'm not into that. I happen to think they make a good product. What I don't like is that their service is dependent on Agents (not Direct), and that you buy paper from them, which they tell their clients is the preferred paper for their machines. It's standard paper that they mark up. This seems to be a way to make extra on the back end which isn't fair most of the time for the client.

That was just an anallergy, I could of just as easily said syphilis.

 

[Craig]

I think they can get a shot for that Uber?

 

[tppsg]

Honestly, you should probably be talking to your rep instead of a post. Our job in the company is to help you make an informed decision based on site surveys and talking to you.
.

Yes. We should only buy and commit ourselves to leases based on Sales recommendations.

 

[lonerhino]

Misleading Statements...

Misleading Statements...

Careful, there have been some misleading statements posted in this thread about the Xerox technology, service departments, and diseases that have no relevance to this discussion and no value to you in your search !

Xerox Service is performed by direct Xerox service technicians and / or authorized agents depending on your physical location.

The recommendation is to research several brands and devices in your analysis.
Bring in your sample files to output on the potential devices, and make the decision that is best for your organization. Listen to the reliability and uptime expectations and ask for references from other customers in your industry.

The Xerox technology offers extremely high print quality at 2400 x 2400 dpi.
Excellent uptime and reliability.
And highly skilled technical support.

And the nonsense about the paper ?
Xerox technology has the most flexible throughput capability in the industry.
Would Xerox like to sell you paper as well....Absolutely !
Is it a requirement......Never was...Never will be !

You should definitely take a look in your quest for the printer that is right for you !

Good Luck !

 

[Craig]

*****ATTENTION SALES PERSONS*****

DPI is almost irrelevant anymore so don't make it something its not. EVERY machine in the production class prints well regardless of DPI.

 

[lonerhino]

DPI is irrelevant ? LOL !

DPI is irrelevant ? LOL !

WOW...
I am so glad I found this site !
Flamed after my first post.......nicely done !

For you to say DPI is irrelevant is very amusing !
The addressable dots on the page absolutely can make a difference.
This is most important with certain characteristics rendered in a print job.
Things like transitions, continuous tones, knockout text, shadow detail, very fine print, photo's, etc...
But all this only matters if your daily applications contain these features !
If they do I would definitely compare this technology to the other the top vendors.

But I am not here to debate you Sir, just state the facts like I did in my first post.
I only recommended for Ben to visit several vendors and bring his sample files to print.
Because that's all that really matters, the files that he will be printing for his customers.

The truth is:
All production color print engines are not alike !
And all production color print quality is not the same !

I am surprised that someone with your obvious experience would state such a claim...
Image quality is always very subjective.

Good luck to Ben in his search...may he find the machine that is right for his business !

 

[UberTech]

The facts are that resolution is about 1% relevant yet is 99% of the sales speel.

 

[lkl7255]

See a demo of a Xerox 700 too

See a demo of a Xerox 700 too

Resolution is one of those things that I think people ask about, but it is at the bottom of their decision criteria. I feel the output on most digital printers is acceptable; no matter what vender. The biggest thing in my mind is that when you get to those long production runs-- Which machines can offer you color consistency?

As for Xerox Service, we won the JD Powers Award for Service 3 years in a row… so I think that says a lot.

bigben-- Please make sure to see a demo on both a Konica AND Xerox. Take a look at your current jobs, and what the machine offers you in regards to growing your business. Ask questions about front-to-back registration, color consistency, paper/media range, coated vs. uncoated stocks and duplex capability, and business development tools--- What do Konica and Xerox each do to help you grow your business?

Read other discussions on this forum too -- The best feedback is from those who use a Xerox and Konica.

UBerTech-- “Just remeber, getting a Xerox is a bit like getting herpes, if you want them or not they are with you the rest of your life.” I took that as a compliment. I’d rather work for a company that doesn’t just sell a box and leave the customer to fend for themselves. We like to build relationships with our customers and I don't think that is a bad thing at all!

 

[lkl7255]

Will you be at On Demand? I will be demoing the Xerox 700 there...

 

[Craig]

WOW...
I am so glad I found this site !
Flamed after my first post.......nicely done !

For you to say DPI is irrelevant is very amusing !
The addressable dots on the page absolutely can make a difference.
This is most important with certain characteristics rendered in a print job.
Things like transitions, continuous tones, knockout text, shadow detail, very fine print, photo's, etc...
But all this only matters if your daily applications contain these features !
If they do I would definitely compare this technology to the other the top vendors.

But I am not here to debate you Sir, just state the facts like I did in my first post.
I only recommended for Ben to visit several vendors and bring his sample files to print.
Because that's all that really matters, the files that he will be printing for his customers.

The truth is:
All production color print engines are not alike !
And all production color print quality is not the same !

I am surprised that someone with your obvious experience would state such a claim...
Image quality is always very subjective.

Good luck to Ben in his search...may he find the machine that is right for his business !

IF dpi is a major selling point then my 8000AP at 2400 x 2400 is a better print engine than the iGen at 600 x 600 right........ NOT!

I agree with Uber on this one, yes it is important but sales really need to stop beating the drum with it. It like saying "ours looks like offset" Whoopee!!!! Build a production device that RUNS like an offset, one that maybe needs a service call once every year or two, then I'll be impressed!

My biggest concern is reliability, paper handling and support..... print resolution is last and the reason that is is simply that almost all production devices can hold their own in print quality

 

[lonerhino]

IGEN prints at 600 x 4800 dpi.....
FYI....

Never did I state that DPI = Better Print Engine.
So please Sir do not make assumptions in that regard !

 

[Josh]

IGEN prints at 600 x 4800 dpi.....
FYI....

Never did I state that DPI = Better Print Engine.
So please Sir do not make assumptions in that regard !

Of course it is...

 

[Craig]

Hey Lonerhino,
Don't take it personal, it's not a comment made specifically for or at you, it's all sales people. The first thing out of their mouths when they come to my shop is DPI and Looks Like Offset.

And yes it was a fair assumption when you stated your (my) print engines are 2400 x 2400 knowing others are 1200 x 1200. BTW the iGen is 600 x 600 dpi I just failed to include the 8 bit depth just as you failed to include the 1 bit depth.

 

[Keith]

two things:

I think DPI only matters to the top 10% print companies. You know, companies with the best employees and the wealthiest customers. They probably receive files that have professional photographs in it. But the rest of us get to print calendars with photos from a camera phone. High fidelity there! No amount of DPI or bit depth can make a 100dpi photo look good. I could be wrong.... (seriously, I could be).

BigBen, I had to choose between a KM552 (maybe it was a 452?) and a DC252 about 7 months ago. Like everyone on the thread recommended, I researched the living daylights out of digital machines, read Better Buys for Business, became very familiar with sales reps, talked to happy and sad customers, talked with MY big customers, demo'd most of them with my paper and files, blah, blah, blah and I drank some Xerox kool-aid. I went the X mainly because of the 13x19 max size, gloss paper rating and the lower click rate.

In response to being stuck with Xerox; I was (and still are) concerned about that. I do like the fact they have machines beyond the KM6501 (which they are taking care of real soon) but I remain concerned because what if I need to "jump ship" because a competitor has a machine with capabilities I need. Or what if my company starts sailing in another direction?

Good night and good luck!

 

[UberTech]

UBerTech-- “Just remeber, getting a Xerox is a bit like getting herpes, if you want them or not they are with you the rest of your life.” I took that as a compliment. I’d rather work for a company that doesn’t just sell a box and leave the customer to fend for themselves. We like to build relationships with our customers and I don't think that is a bad thing at all!

I thought it was a good anallergy, feel free to use it in your pitch's.