research

[lovacgrf]

im a student of Faculty of grafic arts, and one part of research is about best CTP platewriter (brands) , prepress workflow, proofs... i want to know about those from last 2 years, because i have old literature that is 10 years old, and not reliable now... at least 5 of these for each.. your opinions at least.. ty

 

[gordo]

im a student of Faculty of grafic arts, and one part of research is about best CTP platewriter (brands) , prepress workflow, proofs... i want to know about those from last 2 years, because i have old literature that is 10 years old, and not reliable now... at least 5 of these for each.. your opinions at least.. ty

As with any evaluation, you first need to list the criteria you will use to determine "best." Then analyze the features and specifications, and perhaps anecdotal evidence, of the various devices and workflows according to your criteria.

best, gordon p

 

[lovacgrf]

As most reliable devices, and most famous in this moment.. who has leading industry in CTP sector..

 

[gordo]

As most reliable devices, and most famous in this moment.. who has leading industry in CTP sector..

If you are asking which company sells the most CtP devices - that's probably Screen since it's also sold under different brand names.

One could argue that if you ask which company sells the most hamburgers - that's probably McDonald's. Does that make a McDonald's hamburger the best hamburger?

- gordon p

 

[lovacgrf]

but it makes them leading in their buiseness.. like burger king etc etc...
thats what i want to now, which one sell most (if u can name 5 pls)? i know its not necessary best in quality..

 

[Raymond Ramirez]

Gordo
this one will be tough. We can start by asking if its the cheeseburger (Fiber diode) double cheeseburger (GLV) or hamburger (Canned Diode). I can state that all sales for CTP have hit rock bottom in the sales department. As for reliability each machine is different because of the demand on the machine and the enviroment it is in.

by the way is there still 5 out there

Ray

 

[lovacgrf]

i am not looking for individual ctp devices or types.. i want to know which company have highest participation in producing and selling.. as i can see its kodak, screen, agfa, creo... just want to know, by your opinion which are?
one more question, i saw CtcP technology, what is that exactly, is that knew or?

 

[Raymond Ramirez]

CTP (Computer to Plate) CTcp (Computer to convetional Plate)

the old analog plates as we used a light source 800-850 NM range of light using film
and a vacumm frame to expose the plate then process through a processor using developer. (mostly chemistry of a soap base devloper is what I like to call it)


CTcp is using the analog plate with a high power UV light

At Drupa 2004 there was a new Espresso CTP product from Esko-Graphics. Conventional printing plates are imaged, this is CTcP, using a UV lamp as its light source instead of high priced lasers and digital plates. Esko's thinking was that Imaging conventional plates digitally is the future,

Esko's Espresso was built on there current hardware of the Eskoscan copydot scanning product. That product for scanning screened film at high resolution was a very good reliable machine. This was a copy dot scanner

how they did it was that the plate was to be manually loaded and unloaded, thus aimed at small shops. a small light or edge detect would ensures plate registraion, then it's imaged. a digital head was installed with Digital Mirror and a lens. This unit images the pixels from digital data exposing to the conventional plate. Esko's UV head sweeps back and forth on air bearings. The head has redundancy in the Digital Mirrors.

This was aimed at the hundreds or maybe even thousands of esko scanners that where already in the field. The scanner has a low fail rate. The Luscher and Basysprint
is based on the same technology

I hope this helps

 

[lovacgrf]

tnx

is there any other new tecnology similar to ctp? in the past 2-3 years.. i found only iCTP..

 

[Raymond Ramirez]

only Processless and low Processor... Agfa's Azura TS is starting to hit the market with very good results. This is a Latex base emultion that melts the emultion to the plate..

Ray

 

[lovacgrf]

can u explain those two, or maybe u have some good link?
btw which CTP do you use?

 

[Raymond Ramirez]

I am a Service Technician. I service Fuji, ECRM, Screen, some Creo and Epsons with experience on RIP's and workflows

Ray

 

[gordo]

I am a Service Technician. I service Fuji, ECRM, Screen, some Creo and Epsons with experience on RIP's and workflows

I prefer veggie burgers ;-)

BTW to the original poster. Creo CtP (and plates among other goodies) was acquired by Kodak in 2005 so those installs are now effectively Kodak installs.

iCtP is inkjet CtP, which is hardly new since it's been on the market for some 10 years or so. I believe that it is a very, very, small part of the CtP market.

And as Raymond says most sales of CtP now are into companies that are replacing or upgrading old equipment. Not a big market. There also seems to be little room for any valuable technical advancement in CtP devices themselves. There as fast and as automated as the vast majority of printers need them to be. More reliability would be hard to quantify.

I believe that most of the research is going towards plates that are processless or as near to processless as possible as a way for the printer to reduce costs and for the vendor to still have some room for differentiation and profit margin. These plates are imaged on existing CtP - i.e. vendors trying to mine their existing customer base and try to avoid market erosion i.e. existing customer plate sales going to a competitor. The current crop of these kinds of plates also leave little room for any valuable technical advancement.

Then, depending on who you believe, most of that market will disappear into digital presses which don't require CtP or plates. INHO, that's where the real marketing battles will be because the inks are very high profit margin (similar to consumer desktop printers) and even better, they can be tied to the device sale, just like the ink cartridges for a desktop printer are. So once your customer buys your digital press they are locked into your consumables.
At some point here may be an opportunity for third party ink vendors trying to break that link just like the shopping mall ink cartridge refill people do today for some desktop printers.
And after that.....

best, gordon p

 

[Raymond Ramirez]

Gordo
is correct. As I see it CTP manufactures are not putting RD dollars into CTP but into the the digital side
Screen had purchased Inca and look where this has taken them

Inca Digital Printers

and there true press
SCREEN (USA) - Products - Truepress Jet520

and this is not just Screen doing this. I suspect that within 3-5 years if current printers dont look at this they will be left in the dust. variable data has been out for years and
with the digital printers of today the ease of use and cost effectivness will crush
the small shops if they dont have one

I have also seen retooling of larger print houses into the dye sublimation field for creating garments using heat transfer of printing.

Printing, Design, Photography, Modeling, Sublimation - International Video Graphics, Sublimation in Glendale, Sublimation in Los Angeles, Heat Transfer Services

Raymond Ramirez

 

[lovacgrf]

so as i understood , computer to print/DI an computer to press are replacing CTP in big time? is CTP then history?

 

[gordo]

so as i understood , computer to print/DI an computer to press are replacing CTP in big time? is CTP then history?

Not quite. Digital presses that use ink or toner are starting to do work that is currently being done on conventional presses. Digital presses do not need printing plates therefore no need for CtP for those presses. As they become cheaper, more reliable, able to print in larger formats, and more flexible as far as substrates is concerned and as press runs continue to get smaller digital presses will begin to replace conventional presses. This is already happening in small format presswork.
You might start to see new printshops starting up that only have digital presses (hence no CtP) to compete against shops that use conventional presses. e.g. Social | Print Experiment – Building a digital print company from scratch
So the need for CtP will be reduced. Digital print will likely become the dominant printing method and so printers with CtP and conventional presses will be a small part of the market.

How long this will take is pure guess work - but I think that it is inevitable.

We are in the middle of another big revolution in this industry. It is very much like 1984 when the MAC was introduced. Only a few people could look at that funny little computer and see what it actually represented.:
Quality In Print: The Wayback View – March 1985, Apple introduces LaserWriter
Quality In Print: The Wayback View – My 25th Anniversary with the Apple Macintosh

best, gordon p

 

[Raymond Ramirez]

I think Gordo will agree with me that everything has its birth and death when it comes to printing. CTP was a giant leap in technology versus earlier camera, typsetting and film devices which by the way are still in use today after 15 years

CTP will be here for awhile but you will not see the sales hit the roof as it did 5-9 years ago. Technology in iitself is shrinking every market not just printing.
You are having 1-2 people doing the same work as 15 people did 10 years ago and with this you have a drop in prices because the most costly part of manufacturing is labor. This drops the overall cost per piece which is then passed onto the consumer. I dont know of any other manufacturing that has dropped there prices as raw material cost goes up other than
the printing industry.

for instance: coffee, bread, gasoline, oil, electric all consumed has gone up 3-6 percent
a year.

there is no difference between a manufacture of breads and cereals than the printing industry. As General Foods (General Foods - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
takes in raw goods (wheat, Sugar,Eggs, ECT) to make ceral we eat every day

Printers take in raw paper,ink,aluminium pritning plates and add skilled labor to create the printed work for use to consume.

Just like gasoline we dont consume as nutrients but we use it as a medium to get other things done.

nonetheless

I think Digital printing will soon start taking over and in the future I see that the output levels of 8 up shops will soon be met and speeds will be improved.

Dont despare this will open other opportunities within our beloved printing industry. Data managment and at the speed this will be set forth to the consumer will change.

As you can see that cell phones are commonplace now and are starting to replace homephones...

If I had to take a guess and the year 2012 doesnt bring the destruction of the earth as prophets suggest I Think we will see CTP here for another 10-15 years.

 

[lovacgrf]

it is nice that u express your opinions... i need that... those are informations i need.. i am doing thesis about computer to film/plate/press/print, and this is most helpful...

does every company that produce ctp have their own RIP program?