Standard Finishing
4Over

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Xerox Docucolor Toner VS. WorkCenter ?????

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Xerox Docucolor Toner VS. WorkCenter ?????

    I see that the toner sold for the DocuColor 240/242/250/252/260 are also sold to be used in the WorkCenter 7655/7665/7675/7755/7765/7775. My question is can it also work the other way.....the toner sold for the Workcenter also be used in the Docucolor. The Toner for Workcenter 7328, 7335, 7345, 7228, 7235, 7245 we can get at a better price. I am not concerned about the cartridge or case being the same size..just the toner inside.
    Are all the toners from xerox CMYK dry toner machines the same toner inside. Just different cases????
    Thanks For Your Help

  • #2
    Originally posted by PrintingFools View Post
    I see that the toner sold for the DocuColor 240/242/250/252/260 are also sold to be used in the WorkCenter 7655/7665/7675/7755/7765/7775. My question is can it also work the other way.....the toner sold for the Workcenter also be used in the Docucolor. The Toner for Workcenter 7328, 7335, 7345, 7228, 7235, 7245 we can get at a better price. I am not concerned about the cartridge or case being the same size..just the toner inside.
    Are all the toners from xerox CMYK dry toner machines the same toner inside. Just different cases????
    Thanks For Your Help
    It isn't really a case that the 240/250/260 "can also be used" in the 76xx/77xx... They are the SAME part number, so there is no DocuColor 250 toner vs. Workcentre 76xx/77xx toner. They're the same.

    As to the second half of your question... Yes-ish. To the best that anyone outside of Xerox can tell, the 76xx and 73xx are the same toner. Both are EA-HG, and both appear to be the SAME EA-HG. Careful about getting carried away, though... The DocuColor 3535 toner is NOT EA-HG, it is the original EA. Many say it works fine. And MECHANICALLY it does work fine. (In other words it won't "mess up" the machine's developer assemblies or anything.) But the color balance, for those with color critical work, may not be ideal as the EA color formulations, especially in magenta, are different than the EA-HG formulations. This means that the printer may put down toner a certain way, expecting it to come out a certain way, but because you've used a different toner, the end result may different.

    That said, the difference shouldn't be too great and for many applications is fine. But if you work is color critical, I wouldn't recommend it.

    And for the 73xx series, it IS in fact the same EA-HG, so theoretically it should be no problem at all.

    This however doesn't take into account the messy tediousness of transposing the toner from one container to another, and also doesn't take into account the chip issue, since the DC250/WC76xx are chipped...

    And, most importantly, it doesn't take into account the AMOUNT of toner in the cartridge. It will take roughly two 73xx cartridges (at +-380g each) to equal one 76xx cartridge (at 737g each). So make sure you take that into account when you're deciding if it is really worth it! (The exception is black, which is a little bit closer. 645g for the 73xx and 780g for the 76xx.) So those 73xx cartridges would have to be HALF the price of the 76xx to even be a wash, not counting the messy hassle of dealing with toner AND dealing with the expired chips.

    I've found it to not be worth it. Life is cleaner without dumping toner.

    And your last question, are all toners the same, no, most certainly not! There are usually a few machine which all share the same toner, but, definitely not all!

    In Xerox's recent lineup, we've got (in order from oldest to newest)

    (1) Oil-requiring pulverized toner (DC12/DC6060/DC8000)
    (2) EA toner (1632/2240/3535 + WCP32/WCP32, etc)
    (3) Oil-requiring "EA" toner (iGen)
    (4) EA-HG toner (DC250 + WC 72xx, 73xx, 76xx, 77xx + Phaser 7750, 7760)
    (5) EA-Eco toner (700, 800/1000)
    (6) Oil-requiring oddball pulverized toner (7002/8002)

    The list of machines which use each toner is not meant to be exhaustive... Just representative.

    Some of these are cross-compatible, if your work is not color critical as I explained. But certainly you can never use an oil-requiring toner in a non-oil machine. The reverse is almost certainly true, too, and they are are SUCH different toners, their color formulations are probably considerably more different as well.

    While EA and EA-HG can go back and forth in a "lenient" environment, EA-Eco CAN'T... It will work mechanically, again because it is the same type of toner, but its low melting point causes it to become crazy-crazy glossy if used in a machine designed for the higher-melting-point EA or EA-HG. A side effect of this intense gloss is the saturation of the prints is WAY WAY too high. It's kind of ironic since the X700 toner is LESS glossy when used in its own machine, but crazy glossy when used in a 76xx.

    Comment


    • #3
      Long and informational at the same time!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Craig View Post
        Long and informational at the same time!
        Thanks. I've never been good at being concise...!

        Comment


        • #5
          Can you explain the differences between the EA, EA-HG and EA-Eco toners?

          Also do you have information on the Nuvera EA toner.

          I would love to pick your brain on this topic as it interests me greatly.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by arossetti View Post
            Can you explain the differences between the EA, EA-HG and EA-Eco toners?

            Also do you have information on the Nuvera EA toner.

            I would love to pick your brain on this topic as it interests me greatly.
            EA was Xerox's first chemical toner. No oil, small particle, etc etc. It is the starting point.

            EA-HG called "High Gloss" in the US but "High Grade" in Japan is basically the same as EA except that it has some additives which make it SLIGHTLY glossier than EA toner. There was also some color formulation adjustments, especially in magenta.

            EA-Eco is the most resent, first released with the 700DCP, and is physically similar to the earlier EA's except that it needs much less heat to fuse fully. This permits higher speeds without the fuser needing to be crazy gargantuan or anything.

            The Fuji-Xerox based B&W machines (WC123/128/133, 5225/5230) along with their similar printer-based Phaser 5500 and 5500 also use EA toner, though it is a very matte variety. The 4110 series uses a B&W EA which is slightly more silken than the Phaser 5500 EA, but still no where near as silky as even the original EA. The Nuvera's EA appears to be the same as the 4110's.

            Xerox (Fuji Xerox, really, who is the one actually behind EA) uses developer in all their EA toners, and the developer material appears to be the same for all as well. Most (in not all) use a trickle charge with the developer mixed in with the toner. The smaller B&W machines MAY not trickle, not sure. All the larger machines trickle. The ratio of developer-to-toner is different for different machines, though.

            Comment


            • #7
              Xerox toner

              Hi everyone! Mr. Keness, you had left out WorkCenre 2128, 2636 line, would they be identical to 7750 engine? Also do you know about similarities of those to Panasonic DP-401 please? I see theese machine from different guys and it kind of weird, like for example Xerox Phaser 7400 is in fact same engine as OKI 9600 i think and OKI ES-3640 for sure as I just swapped OKI 3640's engine with nearly 1.2 mil prints with Xerox 7400 with 280k... Also Panasonic DP-C301 and 401 are really close match to Xerox 2636 line or 7335 line, I am still guessing which one is closer by by the age of the machines, I think 2636 is most likely...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by UnlimitedBT View Post
                Hi everyone! Mr. Keness, you had left out WorkCenre 2128, 2636 line, would they be identical to 7750 engine? Also do you know about similarities of those to Panasonic DP-401 please? I see theese machine from different guys and it kind of weird, like for example Xerox Phaser 7400 is in fact same engine as OKI 9600 i think and OKI ES-3640 for sure as I just swapped OKI 3640's engine with nearly 1.2 mil prints with Xerox 7400 with 280k... Also Panasonic DP-C301 and 401 are really close match to Xerox 2636 line or 7335 line, I am still guessing which one is closer by by the age of the machines, I think 2636 is most likely...
                The list wasn't meant to be definitive, just representative. But the WorkCentre 2128/2636/3545/3546 are EA-HG, same as the WorkCentre 73xx, 74xx and 76xx machines.

                In the Phaser line, the 7400 is in fact an Oki machine, very similar (nearly identical) to the Oki models you mentioned. I don't pay any attention to the Phaser 7400 (or the 7300 before it, or the 2135/1235 even before that) as they are all manufactured by Oki, NOT by Xerox, and have no similarity to Xerox equipment.

                The Panasonic DP-C321 and DP-C401 are even older than you guess. They are the same as the DocuColor 1632 & 2240, and use the oldest, original EA toner.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I find it a little .....crazy, Xerox sold B/W Toshiba ES-16/20/25 under their label, SHARP sold Toshiba E-Studio 80 as AR-800, now Toshiba sells Ricoh MP-900 as E-studio 901 and before Ricoh 2090 as E-Studio 900... By the way I had to change all LED heads from OKI to make Xerox work...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by UnlimitedBT View Post
                    I find it a little .....crazy, Xerox sold B/W Toshiba ES-16/20/25 under their label, SHARP sold Toshiba E-Studio 80 as AR-800, now Toshiba sells Ricoh MP-900 as E-studio 901 and before Ricoh 2090 as E-Studio 900... By the way I had to change all LED heads from OKI to make Xerox work...
                    That kind of stuff is extremely common with all the manufacturers.

                    In your case, the Processor Board (and probably also the Engine Control Board) along with the control panel are probably the only things that aren't interchangeable with each other. Although Oki HAS continued to develop that machine, so some of the more recent iterations of that model MAY have parts which have been modified since the original version (which is the one Xerox resold as the Phaser 7400). For the "lower-end color tabloid" printer spot on their lineup, which an Okidata model used to always fill (the 2135 vs. the 7700, the 7300 vs. the 7750, the 7400 vs. the 7760) Xerox is now using an in-house design. The Phaser 7500 is the "new" lower-end color tabloid and it was designed, like the 7700/7750/7760, by Fuji Xerox.

                    The 7760 is getting very long in the tooth now. I'm very anxious to find out what replaces it. To be honest, I was very disappointed with the Phaser 7500. Looks like an amazing machine, but they limited it artificially by not allowing any finishers to connect to it. There are several finishers designed for that machine (you can see then in use with the WorkCentre 74xx line, which is the same model in copier form) but for the Phaser 7500, none of them are functional. Purely a marketing/positioning decision. Presumably if you want finishing, they want you to spend more money on the 7760 or whatever replaced it at the high-end.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have a DC3535 which is similar to the 1632 and 2240 and also the WC M24, however, it uses the same toner part # as the 1632 and 2240 but the M24 has a different part #.

                      My question therefore is whether it is the same toner in the cartridge or not, i.e. can I take the toner powder out of the M24 cartridge to use in the 3535 cartridge? The M24 cartridges are cheaper so, if this is doable, the next question is whether they in fact contain the same amount of toner?

                      Thanks in advance

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by GusG View Post
                        I have a DC3535 which is similar to the 1632 and 2240 and also the WC M24, however, it uses the same toner part # as the 1632 and 2240 but the M24 has a different part #.

                        My question therefore is whether it is the same toner in the cartridge or not, i.e. can I take the toner powder out of the M24 cartridge to use in the 3535 cartridge? The M24 cartridges are cheaper so, if this is doable, the next question is whether they in fact contain the same amount of toner?

                        Thanks in advance
                        You're fine. 1632/2240/3535 and M24 are the exact same material and amount.

                        Save yourself some trouble (transposing the toner is a mess) and just tweak your machines. Note the plastic pegs on the shutter of the toner cartridge. Note where they interface on the machine. If you cut out all the pegs on the machine, you can put any old cartridge you want in there without needing to do anything to it.

                        If that's a little too permanent for you, do the reverse... Take one shutter for each color and cut off ITS pegs. Then, when you exchange toners, just swap the shutter on the new cartridge with your old cartridge's modified one and viola. No cyan/magenta/yellow boogers from breathing in toner.

                        Double check the gear end of the cartridge and make sure they look exactly the same. They have two styles, one which is pretty much solid all the way around and one which has a section removed like a piece out of a pie. I believe those two are the same, though, and the bottom shouldn't have a big pie piece missing on either.

                        The material and volume are exactly the same, though. Original EA toner. The only reason they have different part numbers (and peg patterns) is due to differentiating in the marketing. 1632/2240/3535 were primarily for machines which would be on a maintenance contract whereas M24 supplies were generally SOLD.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Keness View Post
                          You're fine. 1632/2240/3535 and M24 are the exact same material and amount.
                          Thanks a ton Keness, I was rather hoping you'd reply to this.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Keness View Post
                            If that's a little too permanent for you, do the reverse... Take one shutter for each color and cut off ITS pegs. Then, when you exchange toners, just swap the shutter on the new cartridge with your old cartridge's modified one and viola. No cyan/magenta/yellow boogers from breathing in toner.
                            Actually I just slid off the shutter from the old 3535 toner I was replacing and put that on the M24 one, worked just fine

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by GusG View Post
                              Actually I just slid off the shutter from the old 3535 toner I was replacing and put that on the M24 one, worked just fine
                              Oh right, duh... I forgot that you'd already have spares of the 3535 shutters on hand.

                              Beats transferring the toner, eh?

                              Comment

                              UltimateDuploSmartsoft (Presswise)4OverStandard FinishingKBA
                              UltimateDuplo4OverStandard FinishingKBAKBA 4Over

                              What's Going On

                              Collapse

                              There are currently 4838 users online. 118 members and 4720 guests.

                              Most users ever online was 6,151 at 11:36 AM on 11-17-2017.

                              Working...
                              X