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Hardware suggestions - 350gsm full bleed duplex

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  • Hardware suggestions - 350gsm full bleed duplex

    Hello

    New here, so be gentle...

    I’m looking for a suitable entry-level machine that supports full-bleed duplex printing on 350g A4 stock - mainly to be used for customised greeting-card production. Not really photos - solid/vector images often with full colour backgrounds

    Probably ~10,000 per month

    Very happy to use a refurbished/used device

    Any suggestions of models that might be worth checking out?

    Thanks

    Chris

  • #2
    I could be wrong but I don’t believe any such machine exists. Digital Pressed don’t print full bleed as that’s something more akin to photo printers. You certainly won’t find a printer capable of doing 350gsm auto duplex.

    Comment


    • #3
      No digital press prints bleed as far as I know.

      I would contact the big guys, Xerox, Canon and Ricoh and let their salespeople work for you. The Versant series is a solid printer from Xerox, not sure what the going rate for a used Versant 80 is, but they are solid machines and I believe can duplex 350 gsm. That would be top range though, I know that it is top range for our Versant 2100.

      My experience with the Versant is good colours and more importantly consistent colour. Alignment is good and speed is good. You would want one with a service plan in my opinion, it will keep you up and running and not have to think about prices for service calls.

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      • #4
        I think most major digital presses these days can handle duplexing 350 gsm.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by AC Prepress View Post
          I think most major digital presses these days can handle duplexing 350 gsm.
          Might be, I do remember though when we bought our J75 300GSM was the max I think. Also when the Versant 80 came out I believe it could not duplex 350 gsm for some reason. I could be wrong on that, just remember that coming up when we were looking for a machine to replace our J75

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          • #6
            Originally posted by wonderings View Post

            Might be, I do remember though when we bought our J75 300GSM was the max I think. Also when the Versant 80 came out I believe it could not duplex 350 gsm for some reason. I could be wrong on that, just remember that coming up when we were looking for a machine to replace our J75
            It's not in the specs of the V80, but Versant 80 is capable to do 350gsm duplex, even with matt cover or conqueror, you just set paper to 300gsm instead 350gsm, but it's recommended to set a profile for this paper, to adjust transfer rate and rear transfer rate, and add some temperature to the fusser, which allows to avoid jams in the duplexing unit.

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            • #7
              You should be able to lease a Xerox V180 for around $1000/m depending on accessories. The Xerox crease module and EFI performance RIP may be of value, but will significantly add to the cost of the press. Ricoh and Canon may have some less expensive machines that are worth looking at. Avoid the Xerox C70.

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              • #8
                Thanks guys - appreciate the advice

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                • #9
                  If I was starting out in custom greeting cards and doing 10k a month, I would probably go with an Oki c931. It will duplex 320 gsm. It's not the 350 you are looking for, but personally 320 is plenty heavy for a greeting card. It is rated for a monthly volume of 25k (the duty cycle is much higher). It runs A4 at 50 impressions per minute. It will run up to 360 gsm out of the bypass, but not duplex (though some have done it). Brand new price is $6000 US. Then I would find a good used Duplo 545 slitter, cutter, creaser. Drop your sheets into that and it will give you finished cards at the other end - trimmed to bleed all four sides and creased for folding. You should be able to find a decent one used for 4k-5k US. No contract needed. All user replaceable modules for drums, belts, fuser, etc.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gregbatch View Post
                    If I was starting out in custom greeting cards and doing 10k a month, I would probably go with an Oki c931. It will duplex 320 gsm. It's not the 350 you are looking for, but personally 320 is plenty heavy for a greeting card. It is rated for a monthly volume of 25k (the duty cycle is much higher). It runs A4 at 50 impressions per minute. It will run up to 360 gsm out of the bypass, but not duplex (though some have done it). Brand new price is $6000 US. Then I would find a good used Duplo 545 slitter, cutter, creaser. Drop your sheets into that and it will give you finished cards at the other end - trimmed to bleed all four sides and creased for folding. You should be able to find a decent one used for 4k-5k US. No contract needed. All user replaceable modules for drums, belts, fuser, etc.
                    Thanks Greg - that sounds perfect for me

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by gregbatch View Post
                      If I was starting out in custom greeting cards and doing 10k a month, I would probably go with an Oki c931. It will duplex 320 gsm. It's not the 350 you are looking for, but personally 320 is plenty heavy for a greeting card. It is rated for a monthly volume of 25k (the duty cycle is much higher). It runs A4 at 50 impressions per minute. It will run up to 360 gsm out of the bypass, but not duplex (though some have done it). Brand new price is $6000 US. Then I would find a good used Duplo 545 slitter, cutter, creaser. Drop your sheets into that and it will give you finished cards at the other end - trimmed to bleed all four sides and creased for folding. You should be able to find a decent one used for 4k-5k US. No contract needed. All user replaceable modules for drums, belts, fuser, etc.
                      ... and toner costs on the Oki will probably be upwards of .25 per sheet whereas the bigger production machines will be closer to .03 per sheet. $.22 (the difference) x 10,000 impressions per month = $2200 more per month to run the Oki compared to a production machine.

                      All of a sudden the decision isn't so black and white...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Tell me where to buy a used machine and get .03 a click IF they will even write a contract on it. There isn't much coverage on a greeting card, so I think the toner estimate is a bit excessive.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I just pulled up a greeting card and rand it through the toner calculator with Oki toner costs and it says .0925 for the sheet.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by gregbatch View Post
                            I just pulled up a greeting card and rand it through the toner calculator with Oki toner costs and it says .0925 for the sheet.
                            He said solid vector images often with full color backgrounds. That's a lot of toner he's talking about. Seeing artwork would be best, but I would estimate a little high.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yes, art would be helpful, but a typical greeting card is heavy front panel only. The rest of the card is very light.

                              Of course, if a great deal can be found on a production color box, what's not to like. I don't think you will find one for $6k that anyone will put on a contract. I also think you will pay at least .045 a click, and likely more. They often want a base on used machines. Then there is electrical consideration. You can plug an Oki in just about anywhere.

                              Yes, you have to figure in drums belts and fuser in to the cost, but it is way less than leasing a big machine. We are talking entry level situation here. If things don't work out as expected, it's easy to walk away without a lease over your head. If business is good and growth is promising, then you can start looking at a production box.

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