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Making use of the higher Gamut of CcMmYK press work with RGB files

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  • Making use of the higher Gamut of CcMmYK press work with RGB files

    Do you think that the only way to make use of a CcMmYK press setup is to send RGB files to the printer? If the designer sends a CYMK file the gamut is already clipped to the lower CMYR range and the colors info ment for higher gamut CcMmYK will not be there for use?

    I know this is out there but I find the question would be interesting to hear from a printers perspective.

  • #2
    Re: Making use of the higher Gamut of CcMmYK press work with RGB files

    If the printer is not scared of RGB files, it's the best option because he will do the the RGB to CMYK conversion using the profile that's best for it's own printing conditions. Just make sure that the good RGB profile is tagged to the file. Else, ask him to supply you the appropriate profile and guidelines about it so you can do your own conversion.
    Better train people and risk they leave - than do nothing and risk they stay.

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    • #3
      Re: Making use of the higher Gamut of CcMmYK press work with RGB files

      This is the correct answer. However, many printers still do not have controlled systems nor newer rips that convert well. You as a client must discuss this with each and every printer yo choose to use.
      We, for example, because of the workflow we use, have our Rip set to print any rgb as greyscale to warn us. We then convert any native files not checked (such as placed art in a logo) to cmyk at application level, not at rip level.
      So in our case, we prefer you to do the converting beforehand. This is an old approach to be sure but our decision to handle it this way are for other reasons mosty to do with build accuracy and finishing. Same reason we don't want pdfs but native files.
      John W

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      • #4
        Re: Making use of the higher Gamut of CcMmYK press work with RGB files

        But is the only way to make use of the higher gamut of CcMmYK is to send RGB information to the specific RIP that is set up for the larger printing conditions of the CcMmYK setup?

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        • #5
          Re: Making use of the higher Gamut of CcMmYK press work with RGB files

          I wonder if it would be more accurate to say that you need to send files in a color space with a wide enough gamut to contain all the original image data (or at least all the data the setup is capable of reproducing)?

          In practice this is usually going to be RGB, but you could also convert to a wide-gamut CMYK profile if you had one.

          Not an expert here, just thinking out loud.

          -sean

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          • #6
            Re: Making use of the higher Gamut of CcMmYK press work with RGB files

            @ Russel,

            Most CcMmYK printers were designed to use 6 colors to make smooth transitions requiresd to make images natural, not for 'higher gamut' - for example, if one only used the black ink only in a drop shadow - where the drop shadow travels from 35% to 0% over 10 to 15 pixels, the viewer would notice that it looked "peppery" like someone tried to shake pepper - noticeable little black dots spaced far apart from each other - instead, they use small amounts of cm and Y to make it smooth. One of the double colors is for the highlight area - a lighter tone of that pigment - the other for the darker.

            But I think what you are asking is "can I get a higher gamut in my images if I submit RGB instead of CMYK?" This is always complicated - just ask anyone who works with Pantone Hexachrome - you need to rethink everything. Flesh tines, grey balance - unless you are doing something exotic like a tropical bird catalog, I wonder why you are unhappy with your current situation - are you comparing your piece to some other piece ? Was it UV coated ? Was it on nicer stock ? There are many reasons people are unhappy with a printed piece - know that the JCPenney catalog is done using SWOP 3 CMYK - it is often more about good tone reproduction than 'higher gamut' printing.
            Michael Jahn - Slightly used PDF Evangelist
            Simi Valley California

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            • #7
              Re: Making use of the higher Gamut of CcMmYK press work with RGB files

              So your saying that the printing process of CcMmYK is not using out of CMYK gamut colors, but that it only offers smother transitions at press? This does not seem right, but if it is true then RGB is not going to offer anything further.

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              • #8
                Re: Making use of the higher Gamut of CcMmYK press work with RGB files

                Russell,

                CcMmYK is typically found in inkjet proofers, not on press. The c and m are light colors that are used in the highlight areas before the C and M kick in to facilitate smoother transitions, as Michael said.

                If you're looking at a press set-up with 6 process colors (like Hi-Fi or Hexachrome) then yes, it should have a larger gamut than CMYK.

                rich

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                • #9
                  Re: Making use of the higher Gamut of CcMmYK press work with RGB files

                  So with Hi-Fi or Hexachrome would you say and RGB file would be better than a CMYK given the extended range of color information?

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                  • #10
                    Re: Making use of the higher Gamut of CcMmYK press work with RGB files

                    Absolutely. Once you've moved into a smaller colorspace, the colors you've given up are gone - you can't get 'em back. So, for a strictly color managed approach to these extended gamut colorspaces it's best to move the file from RGB to Hi-Fi/Hex/whatever. That sounds easy, but none of the desktop software currently available supports these "n-color" profiles. There are plug-ins available to fill the gap.

                    There are also ways to extend the gamut of images with curves and channels. Go to http://hutchcolor.com/Hifi_color.html. I've used this technique, and it's great!

                    rich

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                    • #11
                      Re: Making use of the higher Gamut of CcMmYK press work with RGB files

                      Great the print world is starting to become a bit more understandable for me-but wait there is another subtle distinction I am missing right? Well, aside from the other topics this one did not require many responses by the group. You printer guys have to admit I may be getting better....

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