Automatic Ink Reduction Software / GCR

[Lester]

I am currently researching CGS InkSaver and GMG inkOptimizer.

I am aware of the benefits of such software, but now need to determine which will be a better fit for our workflow. I am searching for opinions from experienced users of either solution: what they like best about their solution, what they would change, pros/cons to consider, pitfalls to be aware of, etc...

(We are a Rampage shop, not sure if workflow has much relevance upon final decision)

Thanks!

 

[Cory Smith]

Rampage offers the inkdrop option on 10.4 or higher. Might be a better option in terms of integration

Rampage Systems

 

[Louis Dery]

Rampage offers the inkdrop option on 10.4 or higher. Might be a better option in terms of integration

Rampage Systems

Hi Corry,
You are right. Inkdrop allows to use DeviceLink profile directly in Rampage workflow, but this solution needs third part ICC DeviceLink profile creation software.
PerfX Device Link Proâ„¢ can be used with InkDrop ink saving option for Rampage.

Louis Dery
TGLC inc.
TGLC Color Management and Color Control Solutions: PerfX Softwares, Training, Implementation, Certification

 

[stargate]

I am a Rampage shop and user of gmg software (not only for ink reductions but for total color management). I replaced Rampage ICC color managing my 3 proofers with gmg. I did extensive testing that took months. I picked gmg and I would do it again. There is nothing I can complain about it. At the beginning I had issues with gmg ink optimizer converting grayscale files to CMYK but this was fixed long time ago and resolved with software upgrade. Current gmg software does this correctly. You will have great color match. gmg is super fast in converting files. It just takes seconds on any pc. No need for super duper Quad Xeon box. Quality is excellent. Never looked back. I was looking at CGS but it was more time consuming and I liked gmg results better. I am end user and I don't sell gmg. Just happy user. Need more info? PM me. I can convert some files for you. Or go here and gmg would do it for you for free:
Welcome

 

[cielab]

I have had amazing success with color match and ease of transition with GMG and would recommend it to anyone. In addition to color match and ink savings, the support is also commendable. My only issue has been with workflow integration into Prinergy when using online submission of files. The PDFs need to be processed through GMG before the refine process. It would be nice if Kodak and GMG would allow for the .mx file (GCR .ICC) to be honored inside Prinergy instead of a standalone box.

Cheers,
Aron

 

[meddington]

For its dynamic capability, creating DVLs on the fly honoring embedded ICC profiles, and robust ink options, Alwan is worth a look.

 

[michaelejahn]

What type of printing ?

What type of printing ?

Hi Lester,

Could you share a little more about your environment and what sort of work you do ?

I have worked with newspapers who require that the GCR is applied on RGB images - in other cases, a publisher gets a mix of ads - some are SWOP CMYK PDF files, others SNAP CMYK PDF files - so, they are getting PDF files that are using different profiles but they all need to be placed into the same press form.

I guess what I am trying to say here is that depending on the type of work, or where you need to do the conversion - well, things like "do they offer rgb image conversion, to they ignore or can they honor (or replace) embedded profiles - can they embed profiles on "mystery meat' images (or PDFs) - and where is this actually best applied - all these issues - and if the application or solution can 'deal' - well, that is important.

This is why some people might respond "hey, i just used ColorThink to output a custom DVL and uploaded it to my RIP and never looked back" - while others will site a need to simulate a remote print service providers press condition locally on their monitors and proofers - and still others needing the 'whole enchilada' and need one to one, many to one , one to many and many to many conversions (via hot folders) - it is this sort of thing that 'separates' (yes, pun intended) the ALWAN type solutions from solutions that just output a DVL.

Dynamic analysis of incoming files may or may not be important to you in your environment, which is why I would not 'suggest' anything to you until I knew more - and I would contact someone like "David Hunter" <[email protected]> or "Mike DiCosola" <[email protected]> - they will know what questions to ask.

hope this helps !

Michael Jahn
IQColour
http://twitter.com/michaelejahn

 

[tmiller_iluvprinting]

Hi Lester,
Workflow may influence your decision. Check out Rampage's Inkdrop. You will need the latest version of Rampage and the ICC option. You will also need third party software to create device link profiles. The interesting thing about Inkdrop is it creates a late-binding color workflow. I believe most of the other solutions do their work early in the work flow, with Inkdrop decisions do not need to be made until plotting or proofing. Contact Terry Wyse for a more in-depth explanation. [email protected]
Happy Holidays,
Todd

 

[cosnet]

Yes, Many of the systems require preprocessing of files but ORIS has a package through Fuji Film which uses the Ink Drop feature. Note that not all GCR programs are the same and you will find that ORIS gives you the tools to not only create perfect profiles by evaluating graphically the profile you wish to make the GCR table from but to easily add press curves, and other adjustments. Please contact CGS for further information.
Regards,
Bruce Brown
CGS Publishing Technologies International, LLC.
+1 612-870-0061

 

[Louis Dery]

Yes, Many of the systems require preprocessing of files but ORIS has a package through Fuji Film which uses the Ink Drop feature. Note that not all GCR programs are the same and you will find that ORIS gives you the tools to not only create perfect profiles by evaluating graphically the profile you wish to make the GCR table from but to easily add press curves, and other adjustments. Please contact CGS for further information.
Regards,
Bruce Brown
CGS Publishing Technologies International, LLC.
+1 612-870-0061

Hi Bruce,
What is th ename of CGS ICC DeviceLink creation tool?

Also, you are right, not all GCR programs are the same. Many had bad experience with some GCR and think that GCR is GCR. I saw very bad GCR separation made by known packages. This makes people think that this is what GCR can do and nothing can be better! False.

Louis Dery
TGLC inc.
TGLC Color Management and Color Control Solutions: PerfX Softwares, Training, Implementation, Certification

 

[cosnet]

ORIS Ink Saver!

 

[mattbeals]

Alwan all the way if you want to have the most flexibility and in my opinion the best results.

 

[Lee Hutchinson]

Alwan Color Hub = awesome

 

[Lester]

cosnet,

How, exactly, does Ink Saver integrate with Rampage Ink Drop?

Also:
Does ink saver flatten PDF files before optimizing?
Does ink saver use device link profiles or standard icc?

Thanks for your input!

 

[Robert Camberlain]

Kodak has a product called Ink Optimizer

Kodak has a product called Ink Optimizer

This is a fairly new product that is turning a lot of heads in both the newspaper world and the commercial world. It will run on any workflow that will accept an ICC device link profile. It's truely worth checking out.

Save up to 25% on ink with KODAK’s Ink Optimizing Service - Kodak Graphic Communications Group

All The Best,

Robert

 

[alvarorb]

We at Compose OEM Alwan's Color Hub and call it Inkscript Optimizer. If you have any questions on it, please free to ask me. We have customers with sheet fed, open and heatset web presses using it and they are getting great results.

Regards

Alvaro

Alvaro Rodriguez
VP of Sales

Compose Systems Inc, USA.
4740 Northgate Blvd. Suite 100
Sacramento, CA 95833
Tel: (916) 920-3838 Fax: (916) 923-6776
Email: [email protected]
Skype:alvarofrb
Web:COMPOSE SYSTEM LIMITED

 

[mattbeals]

One of the options is to have several different device link profiles created and selectively apply them using Callas pdfToolbox. For example you could use Perfx Device Linker or Link-O-Lator to build your device link profiles for GRACoL 2006 #1 from SWOP, US Sheetfed Coated, etc. Then you would use Callas pdfToolbox to "look" inside the PDF's for an output intent that matches the incoming PDF's output intent with the correct device link combination. Beyond looking at the output intent we can look at individually tagged objects. If you've got 10 different profiles and untagged objects we can sort out how to handle that. The pdfToolbox could select the right device link profile and apply it. If one of the pre-programmed device link combinations isn't matched then you could apply a "generic" SWOP, for example, to GRACoL device link conversion. Again if none of those match you could also have pdfToolbox apply a RGB to CMYK device link profile to tagged and/or untagged RGB objects. It makes a great "poor mans color server". The trick of this set up is to get good device link profiles in meaningful combinations. It's not GMG, ORIS or Alwan, but it works quite well. I do this now for one shop in New York and they are very happy with this kind of "color server". Let me know if you'd like more information. I've set up similar systems for ISO News and SNAP work for a prospective customer.

 

[ORIS_4COLOR]

Hey Louise,
The Device Link integration tool for our product is known by several names but namely ORIS Press Matcher Pro for variable data output. As this feature enables rips to injest and rip and print many types of files (variable data or any other industry standard) directly on the rip with profiles generated from our Color Tuner or Press Matcher color systems.

Hope this helps.....Bruce jump in and save me if I mispoke on your behalf :0)

 

[Louis Dery]

It's not GMG, ORIS or Alwan, but it works quite well. I do this now for one shop in New York and they are very happy with this kind of "color server". Let me know if you'd like more information. I've set up similar systems for ISO News and SNAP work for a prospective customer.

Hi Matt,

I agree with you about how Callas pdfToolbox works great with devicelink profiles. Very good!
It’s not GMG, ORIS or Alwan, but… I would not say that. When using our device link profiles (PerfX), you can get very high quality color conversions.

Everyone say that their products save ink, save time, etc. Is there someone who would be willing to make comparative tests? Not only with proofing devices… on a real live press run. This is where you can see a real difference between each solutions.

Regards,
Louis

 

[mattbeals]

A while ago I was trying to set something up. I spoke with Elie Khoury on how to methodically conduct it and I just ran out of time to get moving on this. Odd that it rears it's head again here in this thread. But I like it! I would very much like to see this on a real press run and what the impact is. As long as we can do it in a vendor neutral way with sound methodology I'd be all over this (again...). We'd need to get some sponsors to defer the costs and find a good sampling of different printers in various locations. I'm thinking along the lines of the G7 testing that was done. Just an idea of where to start...