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  • Back up And Archiving ....ideas

    Curious to hear what others use...
    I am supposed to find some kind of external HD to back up on to along with Archiving to tape.
    Currently were are using an old version of Retrospect to Travan tapes. Our daily back up is spilling on to 2 tapes and I can't get a whole reliable back up for when our ship goes down.

    Any help appreciated

    APRIl

  • #2
    Re: Back up And Archiving ....ideas

    Archive:
    Retrospect to VXA X6 tapes for long term storage in OS X. One tape holds about 40GB uncompressed and it takes about hour and a half to write/verify. I write 2 tapes in case one of them is bad. Take a look how they test tapes here:

    http://exabyte.com/technology/tested/index.cfm
    I wouldn't trust any DDS, DLT, AIT or LTO tapes as I had bad unreadable tapes before. Since I switched to VXA 3 years ago. Never had a bad tape.

    Backup:
    For immediate backup I have exact clone of my File server running OS X Server that synchronize itself with my main server each night also using Retrospect. Each server has 6 320GB FireWire HD for job data and 500GB FW drive for ripped pages.

    Have fun

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    • #3
      Re: Back up And Archiving ....ideas

      If looking at an external hard drive, I would look at the Seagate FreeAgent drives. I have two, and they are the only external hard drives I've found with a 5-year warranty.

      Then it's just a matter of moving jobs to the backup external hard drive. Every time I get done with a job, I copy it to an external hard drive and a server share that gets archived to tapes. I don't depend on the tapes myself and rather like knowing I have my own external hard drive if the server and it's shares go down.

      Don

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      • #4
        Re: Back up And Archiving ....ideas

        I've just gotten off using Retrospect myself, and believe me, you really can't take for granted that everything backed up and is restorable. Restore it on your new Seagate external HD just so all these old archives aren't stuck on just one backup medium.

        And as far as the drives I've mentioned, I have two, so I can take one off-site if I choose and then bring back on-site to synchronize with the first external HD once a week.

        Don

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        • #5
          Re: Back up And Archiving ....ideas

          We do long term backup to two sets of LTO2 Tapes that are moved off-site. These tapes are never recycled/re-used.

          We do short term backup to two different sets of hard drives (500 GB SATA2) in an eSATA enclosure. The sets alternate every other week and are recycled/re-used every other week. This gives us a minimum of 1 weeks worth of backups that are rapidly accessible.

          We archive to DVD-R discs. We burn two copies of each disc. One copy is taken offsite for long term storage. The other copy is placed in DVD jukeboxes that are on a dedicated server. The jukeboxes are network accessible and appear like a large hard drive/volume to the end user. Each DVD is simply a folder in the volume. The volumes can be mounted from Mac OS X or Windows. The volumes are cataloged whenever new DVD-R discs are added.

          We will switch from DVD-R to BluRay or HD-DVD as soon as either format wins.

          Abe Hayhurst
          Director of Color and Technology
          We Do Graphics, Inc.

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          • #6
            Re: Back up And Archiving ....ideas

            Abe, What is the brand of DVD jukebox your using?

            Thanks,

            --tom

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            • #7
              Re: Back up And Archiving ....ideas

              How many dvds do you have already in the juicebox and how much each gb dvd holds?

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              • #8
                I would like to be able to archive to blu-ray using some kind of catalog system AND be able to put that disk in another computer and see the files, copy to the desktop and use (if i had to). Is there anything like this? We have retrospect plus 80 travan archive tapes all cataloged. Problem is I can't find another compatible travan drive for Mac. I fear the one we have is snapping tapes we have. I would like to be able to retrieve these files often. i don't want to keep using these catalog type programs if I can't keep up with technology every 3-5 years. What if i can't find another reliable blu-ray reader by then? Some suggestions were CatFinder and CD Finder. Any experience here?

                Thanks

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                • #9
                  CD Finder WORKS!!

                  We have been using CD Finder for about 8 years and have catalogued all of our jobs burnt to cd. CD finder is really great for this as it is like the "find" on your Mac. Punch in a job number or name and it will tell you the cd it was burnt on. All jobs when finished are put into an "archive" folder then burned on a cd or DVD now, then tell CD Finder to catalogue it which takes a few seconds and your done. We numbered all cd's when we burn them and file them away on a bookshelf in numerical order. I've got every customer file for the last 8 years. We should start to convert all of these discs to DVD's now and continue this system making a spare backup of each for storage off-site (which we never did before.) its simple and works well for us.
                  Last edited by flybynitepress02; 04-16-2009, 07:26 PM.
                  People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it,

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                  • #10
                    After using Tapes for Years and Years - I sacked them off after a Tape faile don me when I needed it.

                    Now I use Retrospect & back up my entire Networked Servers to 2x 2TB external HD... These are connected via Firewire 800 - and Mannn its fast.... Its also VERY fast to retrieve even if the files are huge... I backup Everynight and swap the two disks - one is kept in the Fire Safe.

                    Archiving - We Archive to DVD's 2 x copies One on Site One Off Site.... Catalogued in CD Finder - nice easy App... Works for us....

                    Although - ABE - How many DVD's does your jukebox hold???

                    Cheers

                    Pete

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                    • #11
                      Another thread here on PrintPlanet along similar lines,

                      http://printplanet.com/forums/prepre...e-applications

                      Regards
                      Otherthoughts

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                      • #12
                        April,
                        I think your on the right path with external HD storage...forget tape and retrospect (more on that later)
                        Check out this simple storage device that's reliable, simple and uses inexpensive SATA drives- you choose the size of the disks and you can constantly upgrade the raid:
                        Data Robotics, Inc.

                        I don't believe in tape for a few reasons- it's slow, and you place too many eggs in one basket to retrieve data from "one" possible disk- they fail. A striped raid with parity is intended to combat this...drobo is the best tool. Also, purchasing large tape drives can be costly.

                        Retrospect is ok, but archiving the data into proprietary "catalogs" is annoying...
                        I suggest using BRU server
                        BRU Server Product Information - TOLIS Group, Inc. - The Backup and Recovery Experts
                        Its able to backup your server, other clients, active machine email, etc.
                        http://www.tolisgroup.com/docs/white...UAdvantage.pdf

                        good luck

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I just finished setting up a RAID file server. Got a 16 port RAID controller for less than $700, a case that has 20 hot-swap style drive bays with trays for less than $400, and a cheap motherboard, CPU and power supply. After doing the math, hard drives were cheaper than any kind of optical or tape media. The RAID controller is a Promise Supertrak EX16350, which supports RAID6. There are currently 7 drives in use - one is a "hot spare." The 6 active drives are storing as much data as 4, with the ability to lose any two drives simultaneously. If one of the drives fails at 2 AM on a Sunday, the array will be automatically restored using the spare in a few hours, and the data is still safe even if another drive fails during rebuild.

                          The advantage to this over tapes/DVD's is that all of the files are always available, and there is no back-up procedure. When we run out of room, we just get another 1 terabyte drive and add it to the array, which can automatically expand.

                          The disadvantage is that you can accidentally delete files. I set it up with OpenSUSE (Linux) for the OS, which has better (and simpler) controls to disallow deletion/modification of inactive files. I can also just make the single large volume bigger instead of creating new partitions, which I'm not sure you can do with Windows.

                          I'll be setting up a clone of this one at our other site, and I plan to use an automated process to synchronize the data, so we'll be safe even in the event of fire or theft.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by kyle View Post
                            I just finished setting up a RAID file server. Got a 16 port RAID controller for less than $700, a case that has 20 hot-swap style drive bays with trays for less than $400, and a cheap motherboard, CPU and power supply. After doing the math, hard drives were cheaper than any kind of optical or tape media. The RAID controller is a Promise Supertrak EX16350, which supports RAID6. There are currently 7 drives in use - one is a "hot spare." The 6 active drives are storing as much data as 4, with the ability to lose any two drives simultaneously. If one of the drives fails at 2 AM on a Sunday, the array will be automatically restored using the spare in a few hours, and the data is still safe even if another drive fails during rebuild.

                            The advantage to this over tapes/DVD's is that all of the files are always available, and there is no back-up procedure. When we run out of room, we just get another 1 terabyte drive and add it to the array, which can automatically expand.

                            The disadvantage is that you can accidentally delete files. I set it up with OpenSUSE (Linux) for the OS, which has better (and simpler) controls to disallow deletion/modification of inactive files. I can also just make the single large volume bigger instead of creating new partitions, which I'm not sure you can do with Windows.

                            I'll be setting up a clone of this one at our other site, and I plan to use an automated process to synchronize the data, so we'll be safe even in the event of fire or theft.
                            It sounds like you have things pretty well handled Kyle

                            The only thing I might have some concerns about going forward would be increasing search times commensurate with the growth of the file system sizes?

                            I am cognizant of the possibility that retrieving old job data at your particular location may be a highly frequent request and necessitate maintaining a larger pool of on-line data.

                            I bet that you can write a "Cron-tab" script that would migrate your least requested data to a parallel set of hardware implemented along the lines similar to what you've described above? Thereby managing your file system sizes and content, yet keeping well in hand all your data? Your operator's would only perform a search for job data against the "Archive/Secondary server" when a search request against the primary server came up empty.

                            What do you think?

                            Regards
                            Otherthoughts

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by otherthoughts View Post
                              ....The only thing I might have some concerns about going forward would be increasing search times commensurate with the growth of the file system sizes?

                              I am cognizant of the possibility that retrieving old job data at your particular location may be a highly frequent request and necessitate maintaining a larger pool of on-line data.

                              I bet that you can write a "Cron-tab" script that would migrate your least requested data to a parallel set of hardware implemented along the lines similar to what you've described above? Thereby managing your file system sizes and content, yet keeping well in hand all your data? Your operator's would only perform a search for job data against the "Archive/Secondary server" when a search request against the primary server came up empty.

                              What do you think?....
                              Because of the way we have our file system set up, we don't really ever need to perform file searches. All of a job's files are nested within a single directory named with the job number and customer name. So we just need to navigate to the proper directory. The only rare exception is when we can't find something and suspect someone mistyped the job number. Our production management database can quickly tell us all of a customer's past job numbers, so we don't have to search the file system to find them.

                              In-progress and recent files will be stored within one directory, and everything older in another (since we have tens of thousands of archived jobs, the archives will be divided by range in an extra directory level). The older stuff will be read-only, so nothing can be deleted, added or changed accidentally.

                              I am much more confident with this system than the tapes we have used in the past, because if one of the drives fails, we will know immediately, and need only replace it before two more fail. With tapes, we don't know one of them is screwed up until we try to get data from it, and even if we knew, there is no redundancy so it wouldn't matter.

                              If you're referring to hard drive seek time and not file system search time, I expect to see that improve as the array grows, because more physical drives means that a given amount of data is spread out across more drives and is therefore "wider" and less "deep."
                              Last edited by kyle; 04-24-2009, 10:04 PM.

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