Problems with Presstek Freedom Pro plates

[Apphoard]

We run Presstek Freedom Pro plates and they are horrible. They need to much water to run wich almost makes the ink emulsify in the rollers. I have tried many different fountain solutions and mixes nothing works. I have the rollers set right I know this and have tried different roller settings lighter heavier nothing makes a difference. Now I have so much etch in the water to bring down the water speeds I think the plates start blinding maybe on coated stock. Like the ink is washing out but you cant turn down the waters or it will scum or something evetually. Basically they are the worst plates I have ran . I am wondering if anyone knows of another plate that could be used on the Presstek Vector FL52 thermal imagesetter?

 

[pressmanic]

We run the Kodak thermal direct plates on our Gto with no issues . I had issues like you describe with Fuji pro t plates

 

[londonbob]

Processless plates for Platesetters.

Processless plates for Platesetters.

Kodak and Fuji both manufacture plates for thermal imagesetters, however Presstek makes their own imagesetters and some of them will not work with anyone elses plates. This is why it is important to buy an independent manufacturer's platesetter such as Screen made products. I believe Agfa also has a product. These would all have to be checked. I have had a lot of success with the Fuji plate unlike another respondent. Pro T from Fuji were old technology and depending on the dampening system, certain presses with limited dampners did not respond well to that technology. Check with your Fuji tech rep who can help you determine what is best for you. They will not try to sell you something that doesnt work.

 

[londonbob]

Fuji Pro T plates were discontinued in 2010 or 11 and a newer product which developed easier on press was introduced. People with small presses that had limited dampening or integrated dampening systems such as the Varn Compaq had trouble developing the Pro T plate. Usually a pre wet of the plates eliminated all of the problems. Training was required as well as a review of chemicals used at the work station was required by Fuji technical staff on every press to use those processless plates. The difficulties usually were caused by a lack of communication in rolling up the plates. Some people ran them through a processor before hand with fountain solution and that solved all the problems, Fuji introduced in 2010 the next generation which were much more user friendly to small presses such as Duplicators and other presses with limited printing capability. Some printers had trouble with the Kodak plates as well. Much of this is dependent on press and pressmen characteristics as well as stock being printed which in turn affect the dampening system.

 

[pressmanic]

I believe we have a personell issue with our regional Fuji reps . The service we received from them was far below our standards so we stayed with Kodak rather than try Fujis new version . Made no chemistry adjustments for the Kodaks at all . Just hang them and run .

 

[western411]

I had the same issues as you when I first started using the plate 5 years ago. We found the plate likes Soy based ink and certain fountain solutions. We found certain fountain solutions would blind the plates after only a few thousand impressions. I am guessing your problem is mainly with yellow and magenta. We found the plate would begin to loose the balance of ink vs water and start to plug and ghost tone and we had to turn up the water to get it to work and that started a whole different problem. We use Gans Sumo soy ink and also had good results with Zipset. For fountain we use Gans Ultra FX. Presstek also sells a fountian solution that works well but I am drawing a blank on the name but it has the same chemical breakdown as the Ultra FX. With Soy based inks you press roller care is very important as the inks can easily become comtaminated. We use the Gans Rollers wash and bought a good metering roller cleaner. When we clean up we make sure to wipe the dampening system with metering roller clean to prevent restart issues. Your blanket wash is also very important. I run a GTOV and when hanging a plate the blanket make contact with the plate. We found that residue from the blanket wash would stain the plate and nothing we did would fix it. We went to a fast drying blanket wash from Gans tand the problem was solved. With the soy inks we can leave the ink in over night and at one point last year the press stayed in process for 45 straight days. Here si an email address to reach me if you still have problems [email protected]. I have run presses for over 30 years and the hardest thing to over come was what used to work in the old days would not work now. If you have acces to Gans products send me an email and I will give a list of the items to use. Use all the itmes not just some and i think your problems will go away. I run all day long with no problems.

 

[Apphoard]

I had the same issues as you when I first started using the plate 5 years ago. We found the plate likes Soy based ink and certain fountain solutions. We found certain fountain solutions would blind the plates after only a few thousand impressions. I am guessing your problem is mainly with yellow and magenta. We found the plate would begin to loose the balance of ink vs water and start to plug and ghost tone and we had to turn up the water to get it to work and that started a whole different problem. We use Gans Sumo soy ink and also had good results with Zipset. For fountain we use Gans Ultra FX. Presstek also sells a fountian solution that works well but I am drawing a blank on the name but it has the same chemical breakdown as the Ultra FX. With Soy based inks you press roller care is very important as the inks can easily become comtaminated. We use the Gans Rollers wash and bought a good metering roller cleaner. When we clean up we make sure to wipe the dampening system with metering roller clean to prevent restart issues. Your blanket wash is also very important. I run a GTOV and when hanging a plate the blanket make contact with the plate. We found that residue from the blanket wash would stain the plate and nothing we did would fix it. We went to a fast drying blanket wash from Gans tand the problem was solved. With the soy inks we can leave the ink in over night and at one point last year the press stayed in process for 45 straight days. Here si an email address to reach me if you still have problems [email protected]. I have run presses for over 30 years and the hardest thing to over come was what used to work in the old days would not work now. If you have acces to Gans products send me an email and I will give a list of the items to use. Use all the itmes not just some and i think your problems will go away. I run all day long with no problems.

I run a Heidelberg SM52 which is similar to the GTO. I mainly have problems on any coated stock. Because I have so much etch in the water which is almost blinding the plate. But I have it in there to bring down the water speeds and to keep the knock outs in solids clean because I run alot of solids . Are you running the Freedom Pro plate? I assume you are. I will email you also.

 

[Apphoard]

Well I am going to try the Gans Ultra FS I think it is that Western suggested. If anyone else is running the Freedom Pro plate and is using something that works I would love to hear about it. I have checked with other plate manufacturers and nobody else makes a plate the will work on the Vector except Presstek. So I am stuck!

 

[white rabbit]

Well I am going to try the Gans Ultra FS I think it is that Western suggested. If anyone else is running the Freedom Pro plate and is using something that works I would love to hear about it. I have checked with other plate manufacturers and nobody else makes a plate the will work on the Vector except Presstek. So I am stuck!

I just started with the Freedom Plates, and i am having toning problems and screens plugging in. I run Van Son VS and VS3 inks. I have tried AB Dick pink fountain solution (10%) and Prime Sheetfed (2 oz/gal) with Green Diamond (3 oz/gal). No difference. The gripper edge of the plate tones about 4 inches up, then its fine. Rollers are good, and set properly. The press is a Printmaster 46-2.

Any fresh ideas out there ? I will be speaking with Presstek tomorrow as well. They dont seem to have a "this will work" solution.

Thanks Y'all...

B

 

[Apphoard]

I just started with the Freedom Plates, and i am having toning problems and screens plugging in. I run Van Son VS and VS3 inks. I have tried AB Dick pink fountain solution (10%) and Prime Sheetfed (2 oz/gal) with Green Diamond (3 oz/gal). No difference. The gripper edge of the plate tones about 4 inches up, then its fine. Rollers are good, and set properly. The press is a Printmaster 46-2.

Any fresh ideas out there ? I will be speaking with Presstek tomorrow as well. They dont seem to have a "this will work" solution.

Thanks Y'all...

B

We have a PM 46 running freedom pro plates. I will ask the guy tomorrow what solution he is running and what he mixes it at. I run the plate also on a sm52 but I use a two step solution from Prisco. My email is [email protected]
If I don't get back to this thread just send me a email. Well his press is a quick master 46 but think its the same correct? The Gans ultra wouldn't come close to running as good as what I had which I run now. I wouldn't suggest it with these plates. These plates also do not store well. If you let them sit without a gum on them for longer than 4 to 5 hours you will get little dots everywhere that are extremely hard to get rid of. I usually trash the plate when I get them. Have you tried putting more etch or fountain solution in your water? These plates like a lot of water. They run at the edge of your rollers being emulsified. I am sorry to say but I would suggest if you can get rid of this ctp system that would be your best bet. My company is looking for another as we speak. The plates will run on un coated stock ok. But light coverage on a coated sheet they run horrible. Presstek wasn't very much help for me either. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Green Printer]

I just started with the Freedom Plates, and i am having toning problems and screens plugging in. I run Van Son VS and VS3 inks. I have tried AB Dick pink fountain solution (10%) and Prime Sheetfed (2 oz/gal) with Green Diamond (3 oz/gal). No difference. The gripper edge of the plate tones about 4 inches up, then its fine. Rollers are good, and set properly. The press is a Printmaster 46-2.

Any fresh ideas out there ? I will be speaking with Presstek tomorrow as well. They dont seem to have a "this will work" solution.

Thanks Y'all...

B

I have tested these plates. They work best with Best Chem Supplies Universal Fountain Solution at about 4 oz / gallon. I ran various ink from different suppliers colors ranged from black to metallics. The inks that ran best were Habitat line followed by low or no VOC inks from other suppliers. I was hired by the largest press room supplier of fountain solution and ink to do the test. They did not like my conclusions since I did not pick any of their products as compatible. I was required not to mention this for a period of 2 years. Time has expired.

 

[Apphoard]

I have tested these plates. They work best with Best Chem Supplies Universal Fountain Solution at about 4 oz / gallon. I ran various ink from different suppliers colors ranged from black to metallics. The inks that ran best were Habitat line followed by low or no VOC inks from other suppliers. I was hired by the largest press room supplier of fountain solution and ink to do the test. They did not like my conclusions since I did not pick any of their products as compatible. I was required not to mention this for a period of 2 years. Time has expired.

I think it all depends on what press you run and water system. The water the guy runs next to me on the qm46 will not even run on my sm52. What press did you do the test on?

 

[Green Printer]

I think it all depends on what press you run and water system. The water the guy runs next to me on the qm46 will not even run on my sm52. What press did you do the test on?

KOMORI 20, SAKURAI 72, ABDICK 360 Three totally different dampening systems, inkers and roller durometers, plates worked on all three. Komori reverse nip, Sakurai with differential speed, ABDick with it's oscillating back and forth ductor.

Dampening system and press type had absolutely no bearing on plates ability. Fountain solution and ink type were the determining factors.

 

[Apphoard]

KOMORI 20, SAKURAI 72, ABDICK 360 Three totally different dampening systems, inkers and roller durometers, plates worked on all three. Komori reverse nip, Sakurai with differential speed, ABDick with it's oscillating back and forth ductor.

Dampening system and press type had absolutely no bearing on plates ability. Fountain solution and ink type were the determining factors.

Just going by what I see at my shop. Like I said the water that runs on out qm46 will not even run on our sm52. The guy at our shop runs Universal pink by varn he puts 4 ounces to the little water bottles on the press. I am not sure what that works out to.

 

[Green Printer]

Let's talk all plates in general. They all work to various degrees of runnabillty. I have tested over 30 plates. In every case I found that it was the fountain solution and ink combination that enabled them to work. It had virtually nothing to do press type, dampner or manufacturer sheet fed or web. Time and time again the correct fountain solution and ink combo is the deciding factor eveytime.

Solvent type fountain solutions and inks were continually the hardest to get to a balance. Low Solvent ink and solvent type fountain solution worked better. Virtually solvent free ink and fountain solution in all cases worked best. It is not that the solvent systems did not work it was just harder with a very narrow window for good printing. The virtually solvent free systems worked easier with a much larger window of opportunity for good printing.

 

[western411]

Vector plates

Vector plates

I just started with the Freedom Plates, and i am having toning problems and screens plugging in. I run Van Son VS and VS3 inks. I have tried AB Dick pink fountain solution (10%) and Prime Sheetfed (2 oz/gal) with Green Diamond (3 oz/gal). No difference. The gripper edge of the plate tones about 4 inches up, then its fine. Rollers are good, and set properly. The press is a Printmaster 46-2.

Any fresh ideas out there ? I will be speaking with Presstek tomorrow as well. They dont seem to have a "this will work" solution.

Thanks Y'all...

B

I also had the same problem in the beginning, that was 6 years ago. We found it to be a problem of both ink and fountain solution. We found that Soy based inks with the Gans ultra FX fountain solution works fine on our GTOV with DDS dampening and Ryobi 3302 with crestlines. It was also important to work with a blanket wash which wont stain the plate. In the beginiing some of the standard blanket washs would leave a reside that transfered onto the plate with the first impression. That transfer made theplate print poorly. Anotherissue can be roller wasup. If you would like call me and I will talk you through what we do and you can see if will help you. 714-730-0356 - Scott

 

[western411]

I also had the same problem in the beginning, that was 6 years ago. We found it to be a problem of both ink and fountain solution. We found that Soy based inks with the Gans ultra FX fountain solution works fine on our GTOV with DDS dampening and Ryobi 3302 with crestlines. We found that the oil based inks did not work well with Gans ultra FX fountain. We also found if we dump our water in the plate processor each along with the in the water in the press chiller each Monday the plates work better. Think of it as washing your clothes in the same water for 3 days. As the water got older the appearance of the smalls dots was also greater. I took my old auto tools cabinet with trays and used it for my plates. If I need to store a plate for a few days it works great. I also wipe down a stored plate with a little plate cleaner and water before I put it on the press. Alot of times the small dots are oxidation from exposure to light which fuses to the plate unless wiped off first. We also used the Prisco products and they worked great but fried the plates and the ink after about 5000 sheets. These plates do like alot of water. We found if we get to much ink on the damper rollers they wont carry as much water and the plate runs to dry. If you see emulsifed ink on the dampening system wipe it off and the plate should run fine. It was also important to work with a blanket wash which wont stain the plate. In the beginiing some of the standard blanket washs would leave a reside that transfered onto the plate with the first impression. That transfer made the plate print poorly. Another issue can be roller washup. If you would like call me and I will talk you through what we do and you can see if will help you. 714-730-0356 - Scott

 

[white rabbit]

Thank You Gentlemen ! Lots of good info there. It seems i have my homework to do...
The GTO is running good today with the Prime Sheetfed solution and Saphira Bio process colors...
The PM is still toning, but im too busy to mess with it.

Have a great weekend !
I'll be printing...

B

 

[western411]

We found a lot of toning issue with our soy inks was our own fault. During clean up any roller wash left behind in the dampener can contaminate the roller surface and the next job wont take water correctly and thus tones. Soy and Bio based inks are very easy to comtaminte. Once that happens you are toast. Our press wash is water soluble so we can do a final flush with tap water to get every bit of chemical off the rollers. As we flush we watch the color of the water to see if it is clear. If it is still carrying roller wash it will look white or discolored. We now do a quick flush with MRC of just the water system during the final steps of clean out and then a quick hand wipe down with a cotton pad and MRC and those type of problems are gone forever. You will be amazed how much ink you can pull off a water roller you think is clean. We also found we tone if to much ink or emulsifyied in the water system rollers. Good luck

 

[Apphoard]

Thank You Gentlemen ! Lots of good info there. It seems i have my homework to do...
The GTO is running good today with the Prime Sheetfed solution and Saphira Bio process colors...
The PM is still toning, but im too busy to mess with it.

Have a great weekend !
I'll be printing...

B

Rabbit be sure to tell us what you guys think of the plates. We run Braden Sutphin vegetable based inks. The plates run ok for us on offset stocks. But light coverage on a coated sheet they want to emulsify. Or if you have a big solid with a 80% screen or any screen in it we have big problems they want to emulsify and plug in. We use Prisco Auto wash 6000 also. I have tried every fountain solution anyone would recommend nothing really makes a difference as far as making the plates run good. Maybe we are pushing the limits of these plates. But aside from the other two guys that posted I have yet to hear anyone say one good thing about these plates or myself. Maybe if you are stepping up from a paper or plastic plate I could see then how you could be happy with the plates.