Cloud Software

Cloud Software

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 57.9%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 3 15.8%
  • No

    Votes: 5 26.3%

  • Total voters
    19

Greg_Firestone

Well-known member
Hi all,

The whole "Cloud" buzz has been going on for a little while now. Apple and Microsoft are pushing it. Just wondering how small and medium size print shops feel about cloud computing and software as a service (SAAS).

Could you ever see yourself using production software that resides on a cloud? If not, what are your reasons?

Greg
 
077-Support-in-The-Cloud.png


(Couldn't resist) best, gordo
 
Since my background was computer engineering before I got into printing, so I think I can add some insight to this discussion.

Cloud software is great. You don't have to upfront purchase any large software packages, as most cloud software you can "rent" on a monthly basis. You don't have to worry about the hardware or infrastructure to get that software running. You don't have to worry about cooling or power issues for those servers, and you don't have to worry about backups (in theory!). If you add new computers to your print shop, you don't have to hire a techy to come install all that software as you can easily point it to the cloud. CloudPrePressXYZ, as I'll call it, could even generate live PDF previews for clients, and send them out automatically. Wouldn't that be neat!

But in reality, unless you're a grandma who uses Office Live to write recipe cards, or a student who doesn't have their own computer, or a myriad of other genuine users of cloud software, its better to stick to terra firma computing.

Bandwidth: In a print shop, cloud software really doesn't work, except for maybe spreadsheets and documents. In pre-press, its not uncommon to handle files ranging from hundreds of megs to several gigs. Imagine having to upload all that to the cloud FIRST before you can even start to process it. Average business internet connections feature a 1 megabit upload speed, as most traffic is downstream and not upstream. A 500 meg file would take about 30 minutes to upload to the cloud. And thats ONE file at a time. If you have multuple pre-press techs, they would have to wait till the first one was done. First in, first out. In that same 30 minutes on terra firma you can already have sent plates to output.

Storage: Right now fictitious PrintShopXYZ has several terabytes of backups of previous jobs. On average, a full color poster job can be several gigs, and they design and print several a month. In the cloud, you're paying for storage, so you have to decide to either keep job files in the cloud incase you need to re-print or make a change, or if you delete them to save space, and re-upload them when you need them. If you choose the later, then you will need to spend time and bandwidth to re-upload the files in the event you need to make changes or do a re-order. People take for granted that cloud storage will always be there; don't count on it. If its in the cloud, its volatile. So you still have to keep a local copy (or two).

Security: This, my friends, is where the lawyers get involved when things go bad. As an industry insider for many years, I can tell you that more often than not an online service or site is designed from the ground up with features and functionality being the primary driving force, and security is slapped on the top when its done. This is a widespread industry practice, but can lead to problems down the road as people discover loopholes. Gmail has been compromised before, so has virtually every webmail platform. If enough people use CloudPrePressXYZ, eventually some nefarious user will figure out how to compromise it. If you client base varies widely, having someone with ill intentions gain access to your client base and more importantly THEIR FILES, could have widespread legal implications. Often PrintShopXYZ will do work for competing companies or campaign. That would be a PR nightmare if Obama found out you also printed for McCain! Worse would be if PrintShopXYZ printed government jobs, or bank jobs. That could literally end a business.

Reliability and Performance: Assuming that bandwidth isn't an issue, storage isn't an issue, and security is handled by Mr. T, we still need to look at reliability and performance. How often does your internet connection go down? Thats now pre-press downtime also. How fast does CloudPrePressXYZ process a file? How often do they upgrade their servers. If you had a shiny new 8 core desktop, how would the speed compare? Whats their uptime reliability? How long from start of upload to finished pre-press file does it take compared to the old way?

In conclusion, while cloud software may be good for photo sharing, facebook and tweeting, enterprise applications are still best left in the enterprise. While you may save a lot on the initial purchase price, the ongoing monthly fees, increased bandwidth requirements, and waiting time will often quickly absorb those gains, and result in a serious net loss.

When it comes down to it; security is THE MAJOR concern. Will your cloud platform be compromised? Yes. Either it will be, or may already have been, and you just don't know about it. While many people find it easy to use cloud apps like QuickBooks or OfficeLive, you don't want crucial info to be dangling around like a cyber carrot. Physical security of your office is much easier to manage. Yes, a criminal could break in and steal your servers and backup drives, but thats far less likely. In the cyberworld, its like the entire planet is outside your office door, all trying their keys. It only takes one to work, and your pawned...
 
Since my background was computer engineering before I got into printing, so I think I can add some insight to this discussion.

Cloud software is great. You don't have to upfront purchase any large software packages, as most cloud software you can "rent" on a monthly basis. You don't have to worry about the hardware or infrastructure to get that software running. You don't have to worry about cooling or power issues for those servers, and you don't have to worry about backups (in theory!). If you add new computers to your print shop, you don't have to hire a techy to come install all that software as you can easily point it to the cloud. CloudPrePressXYZ, as I'll call it, could even generate live PDF previews for clients, and send them out automatically. Wouldn't that be neat!

But in reality, unless you're a grandma who uses Office Live to write recipe cards, or a student who doesn't have their own computer, or a myriad of other genuine users of cloud software, its better to stick to terra firma computing.

Bandwidth: In a print shop, cloud software really doesn't work, except for maybe spreadsheets and documents. In pre-press, its not uncommon to handle files ranging from hundreds of megs to several gigs. Imagine having to upload all that to the cloud FIRST before you can even start to process it. Average business internet connections feature a 1 megabit upload speed, as most traffic is downstream and not upstream. A 500 meg file would take about 30 minutes to upload to the cloud. And thats ONE file at a time. If you have multuple pre-press techs, they would have to wait till the first one was done. First in, first out. In that same 30 minutes on terra firma you can already have sent plates to output.

Storage: Right now fictitious PrintShopXYZ has several terabytes of backups of previous jobs. On average, a full color poster job can be several gigs, and they design and print several a month. In the cloud, you're paying for storage, so you have to decide to either keep job files in the cloud incase you need to re-print or make a change, or if you delete them to save space, and re-upload them when you need them. If you choose the later, then you will need to spend time and bandwidth to re-upload the files in the event you need to make changes or do a re-order. People take for granted that cloud storage will always be there; don't count on it. If its in the cloud, its volatile. So you still have to keep a local copy (or two).

Security: This, my friends, is where the lawyers get involved when things go bad. As an industry insider for many years, I can tell you that more often than not an online service or site is designed from the ground up with features and functionality being the primary driving force, and security is slapped on the top when its done. This is a widespread industry practice, but can lead to problems down the road as people discover loopholes. Gmail has been compromised before, so has virtually every webmail platform. If enough people use CloudPrePressXYZ, eventually some nefarious user will figure out how to compromise it. If you client base varies widely, having someone with ill intentions gain access to your client base and more importantly THEIR FILES, could have widespread legal implications. Often PrintShopXYZ will do work for competing companies or campaign. That would be a PR nightmare if Obama found out you also printed for McCain! Worse would be if PrintShopXYZ printed government jobs, or bank jobs. That could literally end a business.

Reliability and Performance: Assuming that bandwidth isn't an issue, storage isn't an issue, and security is handled by Mr. T, we still need to look at reliability and performance. How often does your internet connection go down? Thats now pre-press downtime also. How fast does CloudPrePressXYZ process a file? How often do they upgrade their servers. If you had a shiny new 8 core desktop, how would the speed compare? Whats their uptime reliability? How long from start of upload to finished pre-press file does it take compared to the old way?

In conclusion, while cloud software may be good for photo sharing, facebook and tweeting, enterprise applications are still best left in the enterprise. While you may save a lot on the initial purchase price, the ongoing monthly fees, increased bandwidth requirements, and waiting time will often quickly absorb those gains, and result in a serious net loss.

When it comes down to it; security is THE MAJOR concern. Will your cloud platform be compromised? Yes. Either it will be, or may already have been, and you just don't know about it. While many people find it easy to use cloud apps like QuickBooks or OfficeLive, you don't want crucial info to be dangling around like a cyber carrot. Physical security of your office is much easier to manage. Yes, a criminal could break in and steal your servers and backup drives, but thats far less likely. In the cyberworld, its like the entire planet is outside your office door, all trying their keys. It only takes one to work, and your pawned...

Great, thoughtful response. Thank you.
 
Cloud computing is the future. There are no ifs, ands or buts. Bandwidth limitations are coming down faster and faster. The problems of today are not the problem of the future. There are already apps out there pushing this. Esko's WebCenter and Fujifilm's Taskero Universe are both Cloud/SaaS models proven to work for quality control and proofing/workflow automation. I already have Taskero Universe and it is my understanding that if you print work for the GPO that Taskero Universe is mandatory. Adobe's newest product codename:Mu is web design software intended only to be sold as a Cloud/SaaS solution. These are just the tip-tip-tip top of the iceberg.

Currently there are absolutely no true Cloud/SaaS solutions out there capable of handling everything a print shop of any size needs. Given time this will easily become the case as Market forces will drive the costs out of IT. The costs will be likely be built into raw material agreements and the actual costs will remain mostly hidden (plates, chemical, blankets, ink, toner, paper, etc.). Imagine the cost reductions of negating the need of an in-house file server, RIP server, workflow server, CIP data server, e-mail server, color control server, MIS server, etc. The upfront costs of buying the equipment are eliminated, the energy costs are eliminated, the cost of maintainenance and troubleshooting this equipment is eliminated. Yes, these costs are shifted to the vendor and you are paying them but that data center is going to be much more energy and human efficient than your IT closet.

I think that many people fail to understand how far Cloud/SaaS computing will go. Eventually (in 10 years -- likely less) everything will be pushed across a dumb pipe much like your cable or satellite television service. All of the actual computing will be done "in the cloud" and your only hardware will consist of a monitor, input devices (keyboard, house, touchscreen, microphone, camera), and a network jack/antenna. Every device will have the capability to connect to your cloud services: phones, tablets, future "desktops", future "laptops" and whatever amazing future devices come out in the interim.

The only current limitation holding back these services from developing and taking off is the bandwidth. Fiber optics cables are proliferating faster and faster. Wireless transmission speeds are set to make huge leaps in the next few years. Hell, cars are coming equipped with Pandora radio built-in now. You can already go almost anywhere and hear any song you want at any time.

That was a rambling post but I think it shows my excitement about this future.
 
Hi graficworx,

Thanks for commenting. You brought up some good points. Just to add another side to the thread (to give a different opinion), there are actually quite a few large publishers utilizing cloud software. Some use vendor solutions (e.g. Digital Technology International | Solutions News Media Industry) while others have created their own cloud using one of the many cloud platforms available (Cloud Computing Enables Tribune Company to move into the Digital Age - Abhishek Pradhan's Technology blog - Site Home - TechNet Blogs).

So to keep the thread going . . .

Bandwidth: You mentioned the average upload bandwidth for businesses is 1mb. I would have assume it would be higher for those businesses in the graphic arts industry but I don't have any industry data to back this. Obviously file size is a concern, but I suppose that depends on a person's business. Someone that does business cards and stationary probably won't have the same files sizes as a large format shop or magazine printer.

Storage: I agree with keeping a local copy, especially for very large files. I do see some benefit for disaster recovery and redundancy. You could have archived copies sitting safely in a different location.

Security: I think the cloud architecture is more secure than you make it sound. I've been looking at some of the different cloud providers (Amazon, Microsoft, Rackspace) and it seems a lot of effort is put into security and keeping your data private. Many shops host their own websites, email servers, FTP sites, or offer a web2print solution. Those servers are as susceptible as any other server on the Internet.

Reliability and Performance: Some good points, especially local Internet uptime. We all heard in the news a few months ago how Amazon had some issues on their cloud. Regarding performance, it all depends; if it's a vendor solution, they probably have their own specs. If you're building your own system on a cloud platform, hardware choices are listed. I feel the main advantage is scalability. If your peak season is fall, you technically should be able to add additional systems to handle capacity which scale back once they are no longer needed. More cost effective than buying a bunch of servers which sit 3/4 of the year.

In conclusion, while cloud software may be good for photo sharing, facebook and tweeting, enterprise applications are still best left in the enterprise. While you may save a lot on the initial purchase price, the ongoing monthly fees, increased bandwidth requirements, and waiting time will often quickly absorb those gains, and result in a serious net loss.

Your statement is quite definitive so I just need to ask if you have specific examples. I get a very different picture when I saw the Jim Rosenthal video on WhatTheyThink (COO Jim Rosenthal talks about IT services and cloud computing - Printing Industy Videos from WhatTheyThink)

Don't mean to pick apart when you wrote, you wrote some good stuff. I just thought I'd add another side. I would also look outside the box of just production software - could be MIS software, a email system (e.g. gmail, office365), market communications (e.g. constant contact), soft-proofing.

I'm really curious what others have to say.

Greg
 
Hi chevalier,

Thanks for responding. We've seen many of the phone companies capping bandwidth usage for mobile device and I know many cable providers do it for home use (e.g. Comcast limits 250 Gigs in/out combined per month). I wonder if we'll start seeing tiered pricing for business connections as more people rely on digital transmissions.

Greg
 
Tiered pricing and caps was how it began. I used to work for an Internet Service Provider and we had tiered services initially. If you look at the trending, what the power user uses today the average user will be using in less than 5 years. The US providers have some of the nastiest practices in this area. The telecom companies will do their best to squeeze every penny out and in the process strangle innovation. These caps and the whole network neutrality situation is a big issue that needs to be overcome. I've debated and discussed this at length and I personally think that governments will step in and do the right thing. Broadband caps and non-neutral networks are trade barriers just like import quotas and tariffs. Can image if the entire road system was privately owned, privately regulated, privately maintained, privately priced and tolled every time you crossed a different land owners property?
 
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Interesting discussion.
Lets get another point of view:
1. Bandwidth - Many of the bureaus use some kind of upload forms/systems to serve their customers, right? So what is the problem to upload their files somewhere on the Cloud - basically this can perform even faster.
2. Storage - input files are always bigger than the output. So the bureau will 'download' the smaller part
3. Performance - how many times you need 100% of all computing power of your workflow servers? And how many times you need 20% of it? What if you can gain 10-100 times faster server for the orders that need 'extra' power?
4. Security - how secure is the Windows 2003 (2008) based IIS used by most of the prepress soft vendors? what about the pass that whole world knows it? I'm serious on this! We hardly passed ISO 27001 certification with our workflow servers... So I don't believe a cloud based service will be more unsecure.
Service and maintainance are obvious plus of this.
And of course the dynamic addition of services you don't need all the time...
So there are good things also..
 

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