Different colors in joining pages!

[motormount]

High all!

Every now and then we print a 24p saddlestich binded magazine either in our SM72 or in the SM74 with minor changes each time(mostly on dates and some text.)

We make plates for three signatures,one for the cover and two more for the remaining 20 pages,one in sheetwise mode where we place the 16 and the other in work 'n turn mode where we place the last 4 and is binded in the center of the magazine.

Problem is with a photo half of which is in page 14(3rd signature )
and the other half continues on page 15(2nd signature A side).

That is a girl who's skin is ok on both pages,shirt fine as well,orange background around the image just fine but the trousers(!!!) don't and can't make them match!

On the left page(14) is as we'd expect but on the right(15) is much more darker!

The pages when printed are placed in the same direction-i mean they are both imposed with their top of the page on the opposite side of the gripper and the problem exists on both of the presses!!!

The files in the document,or in the output imposition doesn't seem to have any problem!


Sorry for the length but i can't upload any images and i wanted to be as clear as possible.

Thanx in advance,

Antonis!

 

[mattf]

High all!

Every now and then we print a 24p saddlestich binded magazine either in our SM72 or in the SM74 with minor changes each time(mostly on dates and some text.)

We make plates for three signatures,one for the cover and two more for the remaining 20 pages,one in sheetwise mode where we place the 16 and the other in work 'n turn mode where we place the last 4 and is binded in the center of the magazine.

Problem is with a photo half of which is in page 14(3rd signature )
and the other half continues on page 15(2nd signature A side).

That is a girl who's skin is ok on both pages,shirt fine as well,orange background around the image just fine but the trousers(!!!) don't and can't make them match!

On the left page(14) is as we'd expect but on the right(15) is much more darker!

The pages when printed are placed in the same direction-i mean they are both imposed with their top of the page on the opposite side of the gripper and the problem exists on both of the presses!!!

The files in the document,or in the output imposition doesn't seem to have any problem!


Sorry for the length but i can't upload any images and i wanted to be as clear as possible.

Thanx in advance,

Antonis!

We just had something like this. A black textured background was different hue's of black on two seperate signatures.

Were these files built in Adobe InDesign? If so, there might be an issue with the files unrelated to the girl in question. We've had issues in the past where we would slap a photoshop image onto one page of the document and the color of the background would change. This was not caught and was seen on press, but there was nothing we could do.

My suggestion, this is probably not a press, plate, mixture or ink issue but a file issue. Have pre-press breakdown the files and see what they can come up with. In our own instance, we had to cut out 1 image at a time until we found the one file, was a logo, that was causing the issue. We print very similar books every quarter, but this logo was sent to us as a PSD. If the file was sent as a EPS the issue wouldn't have happened.

Thats my take, its probably nothing on press-side but the supplied files.

 

[motormount]

Thanx for the quick reply,i 'll check them out again-it was build on inDesign-

 

[mattf]

Thanx for the quick reply,i 'll check them out again-it was build on inDesign-

Not a problem, put an update about what happened after you have solved it. I think this issue is a lot more common nowadays with the ever changing photoshop/Indesign integration that is occuring these days.

 

[cjwworld]

I am curious if you have color management turned on in ID? Might turn it off because if its not set right, it may cause problems. Just my .02

 

[Al Ferrari]

>If the file was sent as a EPS the issue wouldn't have happened.

Hi Matt,

There is not enough information in your post to understand the problem in your case. Are you saying that the presence of a PSD logo on one page causes the color to change in an eps image on another page, and that replacing the logo with an eps version cures the problem?

Your job may be out the door and paid for, but the rest of us can't learn much from it unless you give us more information. Could you please explain the whole thing?

Thanks,

Al

 

[mattf]

>If the file was sent as a EPS the issue wouldn't have happened.

Hi Matt,

There is not enough information in your post to understand the problem in your case. Are you saying that the presence of a PSD logo on one page causes the color to change in an eps image on another page, and that replacing the logo with an eps version cures the problem?

Your job may be out the door and paid for, but the rest of us can't learn much from it unless you give us more information. Could you please explain the whole thing?

Thanks,

Al

I'll explain further:

We had a saddle stitch book we did for a client, 48 pages. There was a consistent designed background, main color was black. There were designs and such within it as well.

On press there were, of course, crossovers that were in place, 3 forms total. In the booklet, page 6, is where the client first saw the incosistent color. We took a lot of time looking at the piece, since this was printed and then caught after it was completed, and in fact, the color on page 6 was slightly different, a tad more red, then the rest of the pages. This also happened on page 32. Comparing that to the rest of the book there was something off.

We at first thought it was ink factors because it happened on multiple forms, but we scratched that idea because we ran the forms one after another. Mixture was set, nothing varied within printing. Also only seeing it consistently on these two pages alone was what made us come to the conclusion that it was within the files.

So we took apart the whole thing. After looking at pages 6 and 32, we finally saw on screen a slight change of color compared to the rest. This would not have been picked up by pre-press because they are taxed as it is on volume of work per day. We even had run 2 proofs AND had a press-check. Why this never got caught in all that is beyond me.

Pre-press took it down even more and finally found that a logo, formatted in PSD, was causing the issue. When we cut it out the color would go back to what it was suppose to be. When we put it back on it would slightly change. We didn't know what the cause of the problem was within the actual program itself, but we assumed it to be a incompatability within some sort of setting of the PSD file and InDesign. That incompatability was then causing the change.

We have done this book before, with the same logo in question and never had any issues with it. We found out then that the file before was formatted as an EPS, NOT a PSD. This was the first time the customer had created this logo as a PSD. So someway the designer constructed the logo and something was not consistent with the color.

And of course, on pages 6 and 32 that logo was placed in, no other pages contained that logo.

-Matt

Edit: Also to note, we did check back with our proofs and the color inconsistency within page 6 and 32 WAS there, but we weren't looking for it. Designers fault in the end, they sent the work out though anyway

 

[oxburger]

It has to be a press issue. I can't see the digital file being created differently for the two pages, especially if they're going thru the rip using the same settings. Either one of the colors in the "darker" scenario is being run to heavy or too light on the "lighter" side.


Is the paper the same in both instances? Is one an uncoated and the other a coated perhaps?

Digitally, is the image placed on a spread within the program? or did they break the spread apart into two single pages that aren't next to each other? How are the transparency settings for the image set up? Is it on overprint? Is the .psd file layered? have you tried flattening it if it is?

 

[cjwworld]

Mattf

Thanks for clarifying it.. It seems you and your staff did the right thing. have to retrace the steps and you narrowed it down. At least maybe someone may have the same issue and this can help troubleshoot

 

[mattf]

Mattf

Thanks for clarifying it.. It seems you and your staff did the right thing. have to retrace the steps and you narrowed it down. At least maybe someone may have the same issue and this can help troubleshoot

Its why i'm here, to help and learn. And when did I become a senior member?!?! I'm not that old!

 

[cjwworld]

And when did I become a senior member?!?! I'm not that old!

LOL in a blink of an eye!!

 

[Al Ferrari]

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the long explanation, but I have some additional questions:

Was the color shift you mention for pages 6 and 32 only for the logo on those pages, or for other color elements on those pages as well?

What version of Indesign was the layout done in? What version of Indesign did your prepress use to do the output to the rip?

Was this logo the only thing in the entire layout that was placed as a PSD, and all other placed images were placed as eps images, both in this version of the job as well as in past versions?

What occurs to me is that the PSD version of the logo may in fact be the only thing that is printing correctly, while it is everything else that is somewhat off. This would be because only the PSD logo contains a color profile, while all of the eps images have no color profiles. The eps file format does not allow the inclusion of color profile information. The PSD format does allow the inclusion of color profile information.

Al

 

[motormount]

Unfortunately i didn't have the time to have a close look at it,but i'm (almost)sure that it's not a printing issue.
That is because it happens in both of our presses,with pretty much the same results.

The paper in both sig's is the same as well(illustration 100gr) not the best in the market maybe,but constintent enough when it comes to reproducing the same mistake on both machines.

Another problem is that we don't have the native files,we only accept pdf's and the preflight won't find anything worth to speak of...