Xerox solid ink warning

[graficworx]

Not that anyone would try to use a solid ink machine for massive production runs, but I thought I would post this warning for even the MFPs.

Xerox Solid Ink, including the new Color Qube, is a neat idea, sort of a cross between a Laser and an HP Indigo. The only problem is the "ink", aka WAX, rubs off fairly easily. Even in a simple office environment, you will notice significant ink rub-off, and don't even think of running a solid ink printed page through a laser printer! The wax melts and runs all over the place! Its like an iron on a box of crayons.

I think Xerox really drops the ball on the Solid Ink because they don't really give you all the facts, they look great, they're fast, not really cheap, and the ink won't last. It will print on any substrate you can get through the machine, but thats because the "Wax" sticks to the substrate; it doesn't penetrate it.

 

[GregNac19]

Not that anyone would try to use a solid ink machine for massive production runs, but I thought I would post this warning for even the MFPs.

Xerox Solid Ink, including the new Color Qube, is a neat idea, sort of a cross between a Laser and an HP Indigo. The only problem is the "ink", aka WAX, rubs off fairly easily. Even in a simple office environment, you will notice significant ink rub-off, and don't even think of running a solid ink printed page through a laser printer! The wax melts and runs all over the place! Its like an iron on a box of crayons.

I think Xerox really drops the ball on the Solid Ink because they don't really give you all the facts, they look great, they're fast, not really cheap, and the ink won't last. It will print on any substrate you can get through the machine, but thats because the "Wax" sticks to the substrate; it doesn't penetrate it.

This machine is for office environments. It is not meant for printers to use. By the way is rubs off no faster than laser engines. And why does it matter if the paper is penetrated? Do presses penetrate the paper? You need facts just ask me.

 

[X33]

yup, totally for office environments where 99% of companies use 20lb copier paper.

The technology (solid ink) has matured since it was first introduced almost 20 years ago. Again, at this point, it is directed to offices, but very soon you will see some Xerox production gear using solid ink.

For now : Color Printing Cost Revolutionized : ColorQube 9200 Series

 

[Kevin Marks]

I worked on the development of the Xerox ColorQube 9200 Series, so if there are any facts I can give you about solid ink technology, ask away! Specific to print durability, some of your comments may have rang true for older solid ink products, but our advancements to the technology over the past ten years have overcome those issues. For most office applications, solid ink output is either equal or superior in durability in comparison to color laser. It’s very durable on normal office paper and even provides fantastic print quality on rough, recycled paper.

I’m not sure I understand your comment about the prints “not really being cheap.” The ColorQube 9200 Series' Hybrid Color Pricing Plans reduce the cost of printing color pages by up to 62 percent compared to traditional color laser MFPs. This is done by eliminating traditional "one-size-fits-all" pricing for color prints, where the cost of a page with full color, like printing a photo image, is the same as the cost of a page with just a little bit of color, such as a company logo on letterhead. Now, customers pay only for the amount of color they use on a given page. For example, an office document with a logo and small graphic will cost the same as if it were printed in black: one penny. Documents with moderate color coverage, like a Web page or company newsletter are three cents. To find out how much you can really save, try uploading your own documents to Xerox’s Document Analyzer Tool on FinallyColorIsLess.com; it will provide you with an assessment of what the cost of your color prints could be.

But don’t just take my word for it; BERTL’s Best Awards recognized the ColorQube for “opening the door to significantly reduced color page costs, ” and the series received an “Outstanding Achievement Award” from Buyers Laboratory for its ease of use, green attributes and pricing plans.

 

[Avisciciulli]

My office just completed a three day trial of the ColorCube. As someone who installed and sold a lot of Phaser 850/860s a few years back, this product was very familiar. We found on all the house stocks we tested, it performed as expected if not better. We did find a problem with it very easily coming off on a coated sheet, but I can't rule that out as a problem with the coating. We folded some uncoated samples down and it held up as well as our 2.5x as expensive laser based production printers.

For the speed of it, and how people actually use a MFP black and white workgroup copier, this is a really affordable color option. I'd buy this over a workgroup black and white any day. The imaging mechanisms are so much simpler than a laser device that I'd have to think service would be less, and the machine would hold up better over time.

One slightly negative is that it definitely had a very glossy appearance to any photos printed. Much more so than our laser printing engines.

 

[joe user]

Color Cube Stinks

Color Cube Stinks

This machine is for office environments. It is not meant for printers to use. By the way is rubs off no faster than laser engines. And why does it matter if the paper is penetrated? Do presses penetrate the paper? You need facts just ask me.

First of all...yes press ink does penetrate the paper, so as far as getting facts from you....you are shot.
We had a colorcube in house and returned it after a week, reasons:
Terrible quality - the default settings are dismal. To get any kind of half-assed quality, you have to print with PostScript, and then it is only passable.
Speed - Again, the only way to get above 50ppm is with PS3
Wax - melts off the paper. I had a folder in my car with prints in it over my lunch hour and when I went to use them, they were all melted and stuck together.
Useability - every time you open the drawer or cover, you have to confirm paper size and type....every time, what a drag.
Pricing - I was sold a 3 tier pricing plan that Xerox is pushing. Almost nothing falls into the lowest bracket. 80% of our prints were 8 cents each. The rep sold us a bill of goods.
You can never turn off the printer or move it!!!
Talk about a waste of energy. Xerox touts the "green aspect" of this system, you can power a small town with what it uses. It is constantly very hot and loud. As far as the add for all the stuff laser uses in comparison....Hello Xerox, you can recycle print cartridges and most wear and tear items in a laser MFP. Energy however is lost forever, and never mentioned by Xerox.
Overall, I would say a real-life user scenario for this system = a big steaming turd for Xerox.

Stay Away!!

 

[X33]

I guess JOE USER is JOE PRINTSHOP USER.

Again, is not meant to be for Commercial Printers. It's for Office Environments.

Quality : it's more than enough for office environments where they print Word documents, Excel spreadhseets, Power Point presentations, Emails, and webpages

Speed : yes, PS3 is the way to go, and you can print up to 85ppm

Wax : I made the same test of leaving a stack of prints for 1 week in my car's dashboard during summer with over 90 degree temperature. I did not see any melting, the color on the first page faded though. The same happens with laser.

Useability : you can disable the paper tray confirmation from the administration screen, not a big deal.

Pricing : there's a 1 Tier pricing for customers that have most of their prints with heavy color coverage. Too bad your sales rep didn't tell you about this.

I have plenty of documentation that shows that the Xerox ColorQube actually uses less energy than a laser MFP.

Yes, print cartrdiges, drums, fusers and other parts can be recycled, but isn't it better if you have 90% less waste? That's 90% less recycling.

 

[Dana Cowe]

Not that anyone would try to use a solid ink machine for massive production runs, but I thought I would post this warning for even the MFPs.

Xerox Solid Ink, including the new Color Qube, is a neat idea, sort of a cross between a Laser and an HP Indigo. The only problem is the "ink", aka WAX, rubs off fairly easily. Even in a simple office environment, you will notice significant ink rub-off, and don't even think of running a solid ink printed page through a laser printer! The wax melts and runs all over the place! Its like an iron on a box of crayons.

I think Xerox really drops the ball on the Solid Ink because they don't really give you all the facts, they look great, they're fast, not really cheap, and the ink won't last. It will print on any substrate you can get through the machine, but thats because the "Wax" sticks to the substrate; it doesn't penetrate it.

=====================================================
Powder "toner" is essentially color pigment and paraffin (aka: Wax). So, even though it's initial consistancy is different than "Solid Ink", its content is similar. Though not as bad as the early days of production lasers, any wax-based ink (powder or solid) in today's printers will have the potential of transferring when re-exposed to heat.

Explained in simple terms... powder toner carries a slight charge, which is opposite of the developer charge. The photoreceptor has the same charge as the developer (in the image areas) only stronger. It pulls the toner particles off the developer beads, and onto its image areas. The image is then transferred to the paper with various charging tricks, then the paper passes through the fuser where the paraffin melts and slightly penetrates porous papers. The majority of the toner stays on the surface (particularly on glossy/coated stocks). The toner on the surface has a high potential of re-melting and transferring to any convenient surface (paper, covers, binders, vinyl car seats, etc.).

It's understandable that most printer manufacturers targeting office environments, won't place a high engineering design priority on image durability. As, the life of an hard-copy office document is typically short (...the shredder awaits).

Offset is certainly king when it comes to image durability. In fact any printer that requires a "drying" process, as opposed to a "fusing" process, would likely have more ink penetration. Hence, greater image durability.

As a side note, MICR laser printers use a fine-particle toner which is more likely to penetrate paper stock...and less likely to re-transfer later.

It would be interesting to see how powder and solid ink printing systems compare to inkjet or ion deposition, when it comes to image durability / transfer probability. Anyone aware of any benchmark testing that has been done in this area??

 

[ALB]

Disappointing

Disappointing

I agree with some of the other posts. The "solid ink" easily came off. I saw really no improvement from the old solid ink engines. Yes I am a printer. I don't know of any offices that would appreciate the lack of image durability.

 

[GregNac19]

I agree with some of the other posts. The "solid ink" easily came off. I saw really no improvement from the old solid ink engines. Yes I am a printer. I don't know of any offices that would appreciate the lack of image durability.

Everyone is dead wrong on the durability. It is the same as laser printers. It won't melt in your car. Unless you car is over 220F. In that case you car is on fire! I have samples in my car in North Carolina where the heat get over a 100F and at least 150F in the car. No melting or sticking together. What does stick together is any coated stock done on a laser engine.

 

[X33]

I agree with some of the other posts. The "solid ink" easily came off. I saw really no improvement from the old solid ink engines. Yes I am a printer. I don't know of any offices that would appreciate the lack of image durability.

Wrong. The ColorQube's Solid Ink output is as durable as output from comparable color laser office multifunction machines; attached is a report from BLI's tests.

Solid Ink's melting point is close to the boiling point of water : 220F. I hope your car doesn't get this hot.

Again, think office documents ! What if you print this webpage on your inkjet printer, your HP color laserjet, or with the Xerox ColorQube. Would you really care if the PrintPlanet logo matches or not the PMS color? Office users don't look at these details.

In office environments, the average document only lasts a few days (I don't remember the exact number of days from independent research).

 

[ALB]

Wrong

Wrong

OK Xerox guys. I went to a demo, printed lots of different stuff. I rubbed the output and had solid ink on my fingers. We ran the job again and let it sit until completely cool. Guess what same thing. The stuff came off easily on Xerox uncoated stock. Why do you think this prouct is so great?

1) High purchase price
2) Questionable print durability
3) Heavy coverage = Very high click charge

The last comment made about life of an office document is simply justifiying the poor durabilty of the print. We have to keep all our financial records for at least 7 years in our business. I wouldn't want to bet it on the Cube's print durability.

 

[Craig]

OK Xerox guys. I went to a demo, printed lots of different stuff. I rubbed the output and had solid ink on my fingers. We ran the job again and let it sit until completely cool. Guess what same thing. The stuff came off easily on Xerox uncoated stock. Why do you think this prouct is so great?

1) High purchase price
2) Questionable print durability
3) Heavy coverage = Very high click charge

The last comment made about life of an office document is simply justifiying the poor durabilty of the print. We have to keep all our financial records for at least 7 years in our business. I wouldn't want to bet it on the Cube's print durability.

Oops, I guess it sounded good when told by Xerox though. Good thing for demos!

 

[Keith]

Ha! Ha! Ha! I like reading the back and forth arguments- "No, it sucks!" "No, it's great!" "It can do this!" "No, it can't do that!".
I recently joined the Xerox cult and I thought I'd contact my rep about the Colorcube for doing commodity type work (envelopes, forms with a little bit of color, junk jobs, etc). On this, I'll have to side with the nay-sayers. First, for what it is, the Colorcube cost is on the high side. Second, my sales rep had experienced the issue of his samples STICKING TOGETHER! So, he advised me that the machine is not for professional, production environments.
A couple of years ago, I demo'd the Riso HC5500. After the samples sat in a box in my shop for a couple of weeks; guess what. They stuck together. Mainly, the prints with very heavy coverage stuck together. Now, right next to that box is another box of samples from three different toner based engines. It has been there for three years. And guess what. Not a single one sticks together.
Some time ago, in one of those trade publications, I can't remember which one; they had a short article about the durability of print through the mail stream. (I found an article about the results here:

Test Validates Exceptional Durability of Oce CS650 Color Digital Printing | Digital Print 360

They compared several toner based engines to offset (with no coating). And guess what (LOL!) A post card from a toner based machine was more durable than even an offset print! LOL!!!!!

Seriously, I'm not arguing anything. Just expressing my experience and observations. Quite frankly, I don't really care about any of this- but I love talking about printing no matter what it is. What I can't figure out is, why I did all this typing on a Sunday morning. I hate typing.

In conclusion, I think Craig said it best, I may be mis-quoting, every machine is right for someone.

Keith

The views and opinions expressed by Keith may not necassarily reflect the views and opinions of Keith.

 

[arossetti]

We have a couple Phaser8560's we use to print our PrintersPlan tickets and box labels but never had an issue with the wax remelting in a car or our delivery van in the Florida heat. I have tried to laminate some prints and those don't work. We have thought about getting a color cube for walk-in self-service prints but not being able to laminate and issues with coated stocks have stopped that idea.

 

[Morning Flight]

Ha! Ha! Ha! I like reading the back and forth arguments - "No, it sucks!" "No, it's great!" "It can do this!" "No, it can't do that!" ...

Keith, you'd think Xerox Phasers were bolted together on two different planets! How else can user experiences with solid ink sticks be that far apart.

We've been using a Phaser 8400 for nearly four years. Not once have we found problems with sheets sticking together. In 2006, I put together a 30-page color brochure to promote a Shelby Cobra Dragonsnake that I planned to auction off at the Mecum Spring Classic in Indianapolis. Mecum had the cover printed by Offset, we printed the inside pages on the 8400, using both Xerox and Media Sciences inks. Three years later, those brochures still don't stick, rub off, or show any signs of fading (http://www.shelbyford.com/CSX2019_A.pdf). For what it's worth, the Dragonsnake brought $1.5 million. Not a bad ROI on that little Phaser.

Today, we ordered a second solid ink printer, a Phaser 8560, to print some of the Morning Flight user manual pages in color. If those pages should stick or rub off, I'll be throwing some very large rocks in the direction of Xerox. I won't have far to throw, either. Xerox and Morning Flight are both located in Webster, a suburb of Rochester in upstate New York. They're literally a "stone's throw" from our door.

Hal Heindel
Morning Flight: Print Estimating Software for Offset and Digital
Dragonsnake - Shelby Cobra built for Drag Racing

 

[kdw75]

This is crazy. We have a Colorqube 9202 and some of the smaller desktop machines, 8860s. They are very cheap to run, the quality is pretty good, but NOT laser quality, and the wax is fairly durable. We did find that some stuff we printed 10 years ago had lost almost all of it's color, so don't use this for any long term records or such. Very cheap for light color work. Durability is the best on un-coated sheets.