? ISO ink standards w/ Matte/dull varnish on grade 1 glossy card stock

[curiosity]

Are there any ink density or Lab targets when printing on grade 1 glossy card stock (TANGO paper) finished with a matte coating? SIDs? TVIs? NPDCs? 50% densities? Etc.

I've seen a few discussions in this forum. Experience is same in that will have to run SIDs lower (because matte finish diffuses the measurements or readings).

 

[curiosity]

I'm supposing there isn't anything documented. I'm also supposing I will have to run some test sets to determine workable density ranges...where a minimum/maximum does not adversely effect TVI. Once discovered, I should be able to establish targets for NPDs, and all that.
Any feedback would probably help.

 

[gordo]

Don't base density targets on SIDs. TVI can be adjusted with a plate curve.

Gordo

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

When it comes to special effect coatings and varnishes I have not as yet found any type of specificaion. Its a case of printing it getting where you like it and using the numbers to control it and get you back to where you were during subsequent runs. I've seen the amount of Matte coating applied (Anilox coaters) and coatings from different suppliers greatly effect the final visual outcome of a product. As long as you have some control targets on the sheet you should be able to reproduce good results.

 

[curiosity]

Thanks guys. I thought I would run some screen tests at various densities and choose a range of densities that don't negatively effect TVI (not too sharp, not too fat, clean looking dots, etc.) or cause problems at press. Then I could run P2P25 linear targets referencing those SID ranges. Go G7 from there....roughly anyways.

Thoughts?

 

[gordo]

Don't use halftone screens (or SIDs) to moderate TVI. Use plate curves to achieve the desired tone repriduction.

Gordo

 

[curiosity]

Typically I use P2P25 forms, ColorPort and IdeaLink to measure and create plate curves.
But because matte coating diffuses light, my readings fall far short of GB standards (in both density and Lab values).
I ran these forms with gloss coating to ISO standard densities; then I changed to matte coating and continued running. The resulting ink densities were much lower, but that's what the press likes to run at so be it...or not?
Everything else also measures differently than ISO standards (i.e. GB patches, 50% K patches). I'm thinking about adopting these lower measurements as a new standard when printing with matte coating.

As for desired tone reproduction...I desire what is visually pleasing but also wish it would be within ISO and/or G7 standards. With matte coating...it's not.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Fogra 49 and 50 cover coatings, I believe that one can compare the measurements between F39 and F49 or F50 to estimate some of the impact of matte or gloss lamination (if I remember correctly there are resources in the download):

Download of characterization data - www.fogra.org

Supplements to the ECI Offset Profiles – Download [ECI.ORG]

Database of Fogra publications - www.fogra.org

http://www.eci.org/_media/downloads/eci_offset_profiles_surface_finished.zip

I believe that varnish is more variable and that Fogra have not developed a specification as of yet, so one may have to create their own characterisation data.

http://www.fogra.org/research/conv-printing-tech/conv-print-downloads/.html


Stephen Marsh

 

[curiosity]

that was good info. Thanks. Will definitely help with my approach. The difference between or normal gloss and this new matte is significant. We are now finding ways to toggle between monitor calibrations for the two. This is huge for predictability. If anyone's interested in the results from press and monitor once we have established a good working practice, I'd be happy to post.
Thanks again for everyone's input.