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HP Z3100 or Canon IPF series CONTRACT PROOFING

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  • HP Z3100 or Canon IPF series CONTRACT PROOFING

    I'd like to get some feedback from users that are using any of these two printers for contract proofing. I am looking into GMG for this solution. I've heard some feedback from another user that this is a good way to go. Thanks Ryan. I am particularly interested in the automatic scan that GMG can do with the Z3100's spectrophotometer to see if my proof is in the "norm".

    Here are a few questions I have:

    1) How long do you wait for your proof to dry before scanning your proof with the spectro?
    2) Have you ever had to re-linearize your printer due to colour not being accurate? If so, is it an automatic thing? How long does it take?
    3) If you create "screened" proofs, how accurate do you come close to your press sheet? Do you have any issues with this kind of proof?
    4) What kind of stock are you using for these proofs?

    People are telling me that Epson is the way to go but I'm trying to go away from that solution due to the Z3100s 12 inks (wider spot colour capabilities) & the fact that it has a built in spectrophotometer for quality control.

    Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks for your time.

  • #2
    Re: HP Z3100 or Canon IPF series CONTRACT PROOFING

    We have a Z2100 here and like it pretty good. The only thing I would do different is add the GMG rip, we currently are using EFI Designer Edition from HP which doesn't allow for much linearization but with the on-board spectro, the printer calibrates itself. There is no separate drying or reading, it prints, pauses briefly and reads the targets automatically. We are using HP Semigloss Pro Contract Proofing paper and it dries almost instantly. The only thing I don't like about this paper is it's a little too thick and is nearly impossible to get flat, keeps the curved shape off the roll indefinitlely. If someone knows of a similar paper that doesn't have this problem, I want to try it!

    Terry Walker

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    • #3
      Re: HP Z3100 or Canon IPF series CONTRACT PROOFING

      1) you specify in gmg software how much time you want to wait. I believe 5 minutes is what gmg recommends for gmg paper. Waiting more than 10 is overkill. This really depends on the paper you are using.

      2) It did not happen yet that it did not pass but maybe because I was re-linearizing every night. It's automatic in specified time intervals set by you. It will take the time to print a chart (about 5 min) and 5 minutes for drying and another 3-5 minuets for reading the chart. If it will not pass, the process will be repeated. Gmg will calculate new color charts and new values will be sent to printer. Everything is fully automatic.

      3) Very close but this depends on the linescreen and color you want to match. You can go as much as 175 linescreen and matching something like GRACoL or SWOP3 is easy. Matching something like my own Fuji FinalProof will require visual tweaks and you have every possible control for that in gmg. There are no issues with DotProofs (gmg name for screened proofs) but you will understand that these are NOT the exact same dots as your platesetter as there is no laser in inkjet. It takes a bit longer to screen them. you will get gmg RipServer for that or you can generate your own 1-bit TIFF files in your rip and print them in GMG. DotProof is an option for gmg that has to be purchased separately. But for one price you can drive 3 44" printers at the same time at full speed of the printer with current CPUs.

      AFAIK gmg has BETA driver for 3100 as I am using 2100. It takes much longer for them to make dotproof for 3100 because of the additional insks involved.

      4) I am using gmg paper (the best there is and it comes with all the settings and color profiles already done for you. I also use MidStates ProofLine White Satin 230 and Outre 210 CSM.

      The downsize of the Automatic proof verification is the size of the color bars. I am not using auto verification in the printer as I already have Eye One Pro and Xrite Pulse for that. It's very cool feature especially great for remote loaction or customer office as they don't need to but ANY spectro like Isis or Eye One Pro. this saves lots of money and using automation doesn't require ANY color knowledge at all.

      BTW. GMG does NOT support Canon IPF series. I used to use Canon IPF 5000 with CGS Oris but I had issues with screened proofs. CGS was fixing their driver i=and in meantime I tried GMG running on Epsons. After I tried GMG I returned IPF 500 and my CGS Oris demo and purchased GMG. Later I purchased HP Z2100. I wish HP Z were available when I bought my gmg system, I would NOT buy Epsons at all.

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      • #4
        Re: HP Z3100 or Canon IPF series CONTRACT PROOFING

        CWE Solutions supply both HPZs and Epson with the GMG RIP. The inkset on the Epson is still superior to that of HP for the purposes of contract proofing, it suffers much, much less metamerism (neutral change colour cast under differing lighting), bronzing and scratching than the Epson ink set. The New Epson 880 range of printers has a Vivid Magenta which increases the colour gamut to such an extent that it is not far away from the HPZ3100 with RGB inks (no Cyan only Light Cyan). The automated timed re-calibration with the HPZ and GMG is great because it can be timed to run before you get in to work. However the down side is that the calibration and validation patches are huge in comparison to the manual ones for a handheld or autoscanning spectro and therefore uses a lot more media. There is also an issue with validation in that the on-borad spectro uses a UV filter and therefore adjustments have to be made in the ProofControl measure to allow for the difference in comparison to non UV measure data such as ISO39L etc. The HPZ's are also a lot slower than the Epson 800 & 880 series printers.

        In answer to point 1) We normally recommend a dry back time of at least 10mins for a pigmented inks ie HP Viera & Epson Ultrachrome K3

        In answer to point 2) Your Proofer should be linearised at least twice a week and this takes between 25-40 mins (inc drying) depending on the tolerance setting -
        in GMG.
        With the manual method only 5minutes of a users time is taken feeding the charts in to a autoscanning spectro
        With the Z Series there is no user time but the relinearisation can take almost twice as long

        In answer to point 3) GMG DotProof provides acurate colour proofs with screening upto 200lpi on supported inkjet printer although we recommend no more than - 175lpi to check product moire. The HPZ3100 is not supported currently with this GMG DotProof module. If you run Process -
        Control and ISO standardisation to your press then the proof to press match should be great using optimised target denities.

        In answer to point 4) A good quality contract proofing stock like GMG 250 Semi Matte will provide consistancy and FOGRA certification

        In summary if you want a Proofer with as little hands on as possible but are only going to use these proofs internaly as make ready under D50 lighting, dont need the Screened output and are not going to Proof large amounts of work in a short time then the HPZ3100 and GMG make perfect partners. If those parameters do not fit your requirements then the Epson's are still the best bet.

        I hope the above helps in your descission making process.

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        • #5
          Re: HP Z3100 or Canon IPF series CONTRACT PROOFING

          Thanks Simon. That helped me to know I'm gonna be sticking with Epson as my proofer. Didn't ask the question but I learned something. Love these forums.

          Don

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          • #6
            Re: HP Z3100 or Canon IPF series CONTRACT PROOFING

            Sorry All - Typo - Epson should have read HP in descibing the slightly inferior inkset for Proofing.

            The inkset on the Epson is still superior to that of HP for the purposes of contract proofing, it suffers much, much less metamerism (neutral change colour cast under differing lighting), bronzing and scratching than the *Epson* ink set.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: HP Z3100 or Canon IPF series CONTRACT PROOFING

              "The inkset on the Epson is still superior to that of HP for the purposes of contract proofing, it suffers much, much less metamerism (neutral change colour cast under differing lighting), bronzing and scratching than the Epson ink set."

              Should have read:
              The inkset on the Epson is still superior to that of HP for the purposes of contract proofing, it suffers much, much less metamerism (neutral change colour cast under differing lighting), bronzing and scratching than the HP ink set.

              Don

              Comment

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