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  • #16
    Re: Miss the old PrepressForums

    There's room for both. It's like the "other" is the frat house and PP is the "dean's office". Where do you feel more comfortable?

    Toga! Toga! Toga!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Miss the old PrepressForums

      Beware. Start rant.

      I haven't read that much on the other site, so I guess I haven't seen the "Dark Side" comments. All I do know is that I agree that this should be an open forum that is a way to communicate freely. While on the old PrintPlanet, I had at least two or three times that someone called my boss and told him something that made him mad at me (although in one instance I stated the truth about my opinion of a company's support and the tuth about problems in their products and they didn't like it, called my boss and said I was "bashing" them, and another time I stated my position as to maybe why more people aren't getting into prepress and said something about pay, and although I didn't mention my company name or any person's name, I was somewhat called to the mat for it - although not directly). If it goes that way here, I'm outta here. Any crybaby companies or their personnel that can't handle the truth being shared publicly shouldn't treat people as they do and/or release crap software. I have and will continue to tell the truth no matter who it offends. If the truth is not welcome, then I'm not welcome. May free speech rule and may those that can't handle it get over it or take more pride in the way you treat your customers (internal and external) and/or build your software so that negative comments aren't necessary. I hate being stifled or tried to be shut up from those whose toes I have stepped on, and have at times been glad that the rat(s) haven't been present with me because I would have like to beat their you-know-what into the ground. If we can't share freely without fear of recourse by someone else on the forum that is too much of a wimp to come to the poster directly with their concerns, and instead tries to shut the person up by other means such as going to their boss, then what are we doing here?

      End rant.

      Don

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      • #18
        Re: Miss the old PrepressForums

        Cory wrote:
        "Any content that has been removed has been removed because it was attacking another user or spam. Is that you definition of censorship?"

        Cory, nothing I wrote fits any definition of the word "spam". You also know as well as I do that nothing I wrote attacked or condemned anyone. I am offended that you would make such a suggestion. My comments were polite, professional and made in response to a moderator's request for suggestions on ways to improve this site. You can disagree with me, but don't edit my posting and then accuse me of attacking anyone. You are not allowing me the right to defend myself in this argument. And that sir... is wrong.

        This type of censorship casts a shadow on the ability of PrintPlanet to be any sort of a valued resource for the prepress community. How can we believe anything that is posted, when we don't know what the author really said?

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Miss the old PrepressForums

          I'm quite sad to see those from the old PPF continue to try thinly veiled attempts to get our members to join their forum. There is absolutely nothing wrong with another forum starting for the community of people who don't find this site fitting their needs. Nothing at all. Maybe old PP members will soon set up an email list. If that suits them better, no worries. We tried (and continue to try) to marry a web forum with an email forum. We're not all the way there yet, but those who jumped ship probably never wanted to be on it in the first place - and that's fine too.

          We just don't want to allow what appears to be a site in direct competition to ours to continue to advertise on ours. Quite simple concept really. Wendy's doesn't hand out McDonald's coupons in the interest of freedom of burger choice. Of course there is that freedom. The marketplace of ideas is indeed open.

          In terms of your specific polite recommendations, most were vague "not friendly" references. "Opinions and free speech are not allowed to run as free on PrintPlanet"? If you mean not allowing people to call others idiots? You'd be correct. Not allowed here. Go somewhere else for that. If you mean not allowing people to link to sites that engage in trying to "swarm this site like locusts", "attack like ninjas", or otherwise encourage users to leave this site for theirs, then yes. Call us crazy for not allowing that as well. Not one bit of opinion or free speech has been disallowed on this site. Personal insults and attacks have been deleted in order to protect the broader community. Links to sites that were set up for the express purpose of drawing users away from this site instead of help improve it were also deleted and will continue to be.

          Your feature requests look suspiciously like a list designed to favor a certain platform that a new site exists on over this one. You wanted:

          - User selected skins: Seems like a nice to have, but doesn't add much to discussion. We have no plans to add such a feature.

          - Moving avatars: Seems like fun, might be distracting.

          - Most recent posts at top: Definitely and there are multiple threads talking about how this is on a to-do list. We are also working on a way to globally look at unanswered questions, which from a forum standpoint would be very valuable.

          - Choice of software "not friendly": I have no idea what this means.

          - Too rigid: Again, no clue what this means. Other than not wanting people to compete with us directly on our board or call other community members idiots, I have no idea what you might mean.

          Given the way you ended your reply, it is pretty clear this was an attempt to post a link to a competing forum. You even tee up a censorship argument to be used later.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Miss the old PrepressForums

            It seems like this is another mountain that started as a mole hill.
            (whatever you do, don't mention the quark forums - can I say p0rn here?)

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Miss the old PrepressForums

              Don,

              Good points all. I have not seen one instance (and don't support) editing opinion commentary on any company or product. We get in some heat over at WhatTheyThink.com quite often for this as some of our writers tend to hold no punches (Frank Romano and Andy Tribute come to mind). You are entitled to let your opinions be known and the truth is certainly always welcome here. Both critic and target should be prepared to defend.

              I fully support your view of how to engage the community. We won't shut down any opinions legitimately criticizing anything. I'd hope that the criticisms would remain positive, but they don't always end up or stay that way. We will not tolerate personal attacks. The way for companies to deal with such criticism is to engage the community and improve their products and services. We won't be party to those who attempt to stifle dissent without having taken honest looks at the criticisms and acting upon them.

              Hell, we have quite a big list of things to work on that were very vocal criticisms of this site. We know the deal.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Miss the old PrepressForums

                Hey pointy. drove by a sign in chicago that was a banner for the thing you got your avatar from. thought you were following me! lol.

                You can surely characterize it that way, but we are in the business of providing information to the broader printing industry and forum discussions are a part of that. There never was any "thinly veiled attempt" to boost advertising rates. I've said all along that we are a business who intends to provide a valued service as well as earn a profit. Sponsor support is how we keep things going and are able to invest in things and do our jobs. No apologies from me there.

                We were glad to have the community Cory built join us. As you know, with most forums there are only a small percentage of the total who are active. We found it to be about 6-8% of the total in PPF's case. This will probably be much the same here, but we'll seek to increase that number and level of participation as a percentage of the whole.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Miss the old PrepressForums

                  Sorry Dad, I needed it for the toga party. I got a puke covered toga for you though.

                  Edited by: Fiz on Sep 14, 2007 11:09 AM

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Miss the old PrepressForums

                    Pffft!!!! Is that it? Come on mix it up!!!! The only threads here worth reading are the flames...quick somebody call Pointyhat a dude!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Miss the old PrepressForums

                      Sorry, you aren't the mother...

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Miss the old PrepressForums

                        Speaking of whom, can we stop a thread dead in its tracks or what????

                        No

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Miss the old PrepressForums

                          You are correct, the answer is no. This thread will last for another 2 years. At least that's our current goal, no?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Miss the old PrepressForums

                            You are correct, the answer is no. This thread will last for another 2 years. At least that's our current goal, no?

                            Yes

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Miss the old PrepressForums

                              Yes no or Yes yes?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Miss the old PrepressForums

                                so where is this "direct competition" site you guys speak of.. I would like to lurk there too.

                                I'd love to tell you, but the Corporate overlords would have me taken out and shot.

                                Comment

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