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Net Neutrality and the Printing Industry

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  • Net Neutrality and the Printing Industry

    figured something would have popped up on her by now about this. Was wondering what everyone’s opinions on this are. The way I see it is that it could be a positive thing if the FCC continues with its proposed plans. But that’s in the simplist of thinkings. What’s everyone else think?

  • #2
    What are your thoughts/concerns?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by gordo View Post
      What are your thoughts/concerns?
      No actual concerns. The most I know about it Ass the talking points for each side of the debate. I usually try to keep up on things but this one eludes me.

      But, if the concerns that it will limit access and create “internet packages” for consumers, I can’t help but think that will create a demand for more printed items. The internet will not be as viable of a medium for advertisers and even for the large online only printers.

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      • #4
        I don't believe that net neutrality has anything to do with internet packages for consumers. Nor will it create demand for more printed items. Net neutrality is all about internet service providers treating all data on the internet the same, and not discriminate or charge differently by user, content, website, platform, application, or method of communication. I.e. internet service providers shouldn't intentionally block, slow down (throttle) or charge money for specific websites and online content.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by gordo View Post
          I don't believe that net neutrality has anything to do with internet packages for consumers. Nor will it create demand for more printed items. Net neutrality is all about internet service providers treating all data on the internet the same, and not discriminate or charge differently by user, content, website, platform, application, or method of communication. I.e. internet service providers shouldn't intentionally block, slow down (throttle) or charge money for specific websites and online content.
          You are correct about that, but it also can allow ISP to provide different packages based on what you use the internet for. If you think companies are going to be the ones taking the hit on prices, I think your probably only looking at half the equation.

          The throttling and blocking can have a huge effect on consumers. If our ISP is throttling a company because they won’t pay more, that very much affects the consumer.

          Also, we do a lot in the real estate market. If sites like Zillow get throttled/blocked/etc then there will definitely be a larger demand for printed advertising. I think overall it will create larger demands for printing in niche markets.

          Honestly, for the everyday consumer, if they went to choose an online printer and they were throttled to the point it was like dealing with dial up internet, don’t you think they might be looking for a local company to work with?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by AP90 View Post

            You are correct about that, but it also can allow ISP to provide different packages based on what you use the internet for. If you think companies are going to be the ones taking the hit on prices, I think your probably only looking at half the equation.

            The throttling and blocking can have a huge effect on consumers. If our ISP is throttling a company because they won’t pay more, that very much affects the consumer.

            Also, we do a lot in the real estate market. If sites like Zillow get throttled/blocked/etc then there will definitely be a larger demand for printed advertising. I think overall it will create larger demands for printing in niche markets.

            Honestly, for the everyday consumer, if they went to choose an online printer and they were throttled to the point it was like dealing with dial up internet, don’t you think they might be looking for a local company to work with?
            Do you think the everyday consumer knows that they are being throttled? I doubt it. If they don't think they're getting the speeds they believe they should be getting then I think they'd complain to their ISP and/or change ISPs. I doubt that they'd think to demand print as the solution.

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            • #7
              There is nothing good to come from doing away with net neutrality as it is now. The first thing that is going to happen is you are going to pay more for watching online streaming from places like Netflix, Hulu, etc...Net neutrality came about because Verizon wanted to throttle companies like Netflix and make them pay more and when it happens how do you think Netflix is going to recoup the ransom that ISP's are going to charge them to allow their streams to come through? Your monthly Netflix charges are going to rise. And there is host of other problems that come along with it too. As for printers...these days most printers receive their jobs across the internet. Lots of data coming and going through the pipes to and from printers. They would be a prime target for "being throttled or pay more".
              Joe
              OS: Mac OS X 10.10.2 - RIP: Prinergy Connect 6.1 - CTP: Luscher XPose! 160 (2)

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              • #8
                Here's a few graphics and links that help those who don't understand it... For the record - I'm totally 100% against ISP's being allowed to charge differently based on content, as well as against ISPs being allowed to choose the speed of allowed traffic based on how much the company who owes the site pays... The rollback that is trying to be pushed through right now is a huge cash grab for just a few individuals without the rest of the country in mind - both consumer and content owner.

                As for affecting the printing industry - maybe indirectly, but I highly doubt there would be enough correlation to prove any cause and effect.



                Image result for net neutrality

                Image result for net neutrality explained





                http://gawker.com/what-is-net-netura...n-g-1657354551

                https://www.forbes.com/sites/nelsong.../#1aca05843879

                Comment


                • #9
                  The Chicago Skyway toll road charges 2 axle vehicles $2.25 per axle. 5 axle vehicles are $5.04 per axle. How is this any different than charging the biggest consumers of the internet more money for the bandwidth they use?

                  Netflix consumes around 35% of the internet traffic in North America. Why shouldn't they pay more?

                  NOBODY is complaining about t-mobile throttling video quality on their plans, or verizon/sprint slowing you down after you exceed certain data amounts. Why shouldn't the same hold true on our land line connections?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JustinB View Post
                    The Chicago Skyway toll road charges 2 axle vehicles $2.25 per axle. 5 axle vehicles are $5.04 per axle. How is this any different than charging the biggest consumers of the internet more money for the bandwidth they use?

                    Netflix consumes around 35% of the internet traffic in North America. Why shouldn't they pay more?

                    NOBODY is complaining about t-mobile throttling video quality on their plans, or verizon/sprint slowing you down after you exceed certain data amounts. Why shouldn't the same hold true on our land line connections?
                    This is the main concern with how the net operates now. Could you imagine if we had to charge every customer the same amount of money for each job? That means the guy walking in off the street gets 10 booklets he needs for the same price as a huge corporation that orders 100,000/month. Now imagine you have 100,000 booklets to get out for the large corporation, but also have 1000 people wanting 10 booklets each. For the sake of the argument let’s say everything is VDP so you have to run it digitally. I think most of us would love the 1000 customers wanting 10 booklets, but remember, they get the per piece pricing of 100,000 booklets. Raise your per piece pricing and you risk loosing your huge customers.

                    Most ISP’s won’t charge a lot to companies like Netflix because they want to provide them to their customers. I know I would have an ISP who won’t let me stream Netflix. But I could care less about 100 different sites that provide gaming or forums about it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by gordo View Post
                      Net neutrality is all about internet service providers treating all data on the internet the same, and not discriminate or charge differently by user, content, website, platform, application, or method of communication. I.e. internet service providers shouldn't intentionally block, slow down (throttle) or charge money for specific websites and online content.
                      I have yet to see anything that proves what you are saying is the truth. Through all of my reading on the internet, I have not seen one citation of Net Neutrality that concretely proves what you mentioned, or even a citation at all. What ever happened to "here's a link to the bill we read in full. As you can see in section XYZ, paragraph 5, the bill is explicitly saying that an ISP cannot discriminate data from one website to another. Repealing this will give leave for ISPs to have free range on discrimination against websites." The legal jargon in a bill typically is not something a 20-something-year-old art major that works for Salon magazine is meant to interpret. If Net Neutrality is repealed, do you think anything will replace it? How about the consumers? The ISPs are obviously not making as much money as they want to, so if the repeal does not go through, who do you think will ultimately pay instead of the websites or services on the internet?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        But, people are complaining about tmobile throttling video quality, and verizon/sprint slowing you down after certain unadvertised thresholds. And about ISPs blocking skype.

                        Not having net neutrailty will not play out as packages to access certain content, but it will start with ISPs charging you $5 more a month for HD streaming and the service also charging you an extra $5 a month. Then our home connections will start to be pay per gigabyte. Which is somewhat understandable on mobile connections, but on home connections the ISPs are already having ludicrous margins. I forget the source, but something like 80% of actual ISP net profit is from internet connections and the other 20% is from television and phone.

                        Plus ISPs already charge Netflix and other heavy services in the form of peering agreements. Which is already a not illegal, but greedy/shady, way of forcing service providers to pay for a supposed open internet. Peering agreements are only a possibility because there is no ISP competition in most places.

                        If you were trying to access netflix through comcast, but the quality was horrible (because comcast wouldn't open more connections on their end to netflix to allow more traffic), but ACME_ISP had great quality for the same or lower price, most people would switch. But you don't have a choice. You can only complain to netflix that their quality is crappy. In turn netflix asks comcast why they won't open more lanes. And because comcast won't allow competition, it can simply stand there with it's hand out and ask for money from netflix to make it happen.

                        Basically, ISPs are looking to not only hold out one hand to the service providers, but also to the consumers.


                        As for the printing industry, it won't be a big or even small swing either way.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PricelineNegotiator View Post

                          I have yet to see anything that proves what you are saying is the truth. Through all of my reading on the internet, I have not seen one citation of Net Neutrality that concretely proves what you mentioned, or even a citation at all. What ever happened to "here's a link to the bill we read in full. As you can see in section XYZ, paragraph 5, the bill is explicitly saying that an ISP cannot discriminate data from one website to another. Repealing this will give leave for ISPs to have free range on discrimination against websites." The legal jargon in a bill typically is not something a 20-something-year-old art major that works for Salon magazine is meant to interpret. If Net Neutrality is repealed, do you think anything will replace it? How about the consumers? The ISPs are obviously not making as much money as they want to, so if the repeal does not go through, who do you think will ultimately pay instead of the websites or services on the internet?
                          2005 - Madison River Communications was blocking VOIP services. The FCC put a stop to it.

                          2005 - Comcast was denying access to p2p services without notifying customers.

                          2007-2009 - AT&T was having Skype and other VOIPs blocked because they didn't like there was competition for their cellphones. 2011 - MetroPCS tried to block all streaming except youtube. (edit: they actually sued the FCC over this)

                          2011-2013, AT&T, Sprint, and Verizon were blocking access to Google Wallet because it competed with their bullshit. edit: this one happened literally months after the trio were busted collaborating with Google to block apps from the android marketplace

                          2012, Verizon was demanding google block tethering apps on android because it let owners avoid their $20 tethering fee. This was despite guaranteeing they wouldn't do that as part of a winning bid on an airwaves auction. (edit: they were fined $1.25million over this)

                          2012, AT&T - tried to block access to FaceTime unless customers paid more money.

                          2013, Verizon literally stated that the only thing stopping them from favoring some content providers over other providers were the net neutrality rules in place.


                          You can see the Reddit post along with all of the citations here.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Right...but where is a citation to the Net Neutrality bill that was passed? Do you really think that if the bill is not repealed the consumers will still be charged the same for their internet?

                            Edit: Of course Reddit is against this, as they would lose big $$$ if consumers stopped visiting their site in the same current volume. As of 2016 they were the 30th most trafficked site, but they probably rank higher in terms of shear volume of data being communicated to users. If 10% of their customers stop coming, then their INVESTORS are going to devalue their website. They will, just like Comcast and Charter/Spectrum, put misleading or biased information out there just to convince you to their side of the table. For what it's worth, I am FOR Net Neutrality, but there is much more to this bill than meets the eye.
                            Last edited by PricelineNegotiator; 11-29-2017, 02:30 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by PricelineNegotiator View Post
                              Right...but where is a citation to the Net Neutrality bill that was passed? Do you really think that if the bill is not repealed the consumers will still be charged the same for their internet?

                              Edit: Of course Reddit is against this, as they would lose big $$$ if consumers stopped visiting their site in the same current volume. As of 2016 they were the 30th most trafficked site, but they probably rank higher in terms of shear volume of data being communicated to users. If 10% of their customers stop coming, then their INVESTORS are going to devalue their website. They will, just like Comcast and Charter/Spectrum, put misleading or biased information out there just to convince you to their side of the table. For what it's worth, I am FOR Net Neutrality, but there is much more to this bill than meets the eye.
                              http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Rele...CC-15-24A1.pdf

                              All 400pgs in its beautiful glory..
                              3. Enhanced Transparency

                              23. The Commission’s 2010 transparency rule, upheld by the Verizon court, remains in full effect:

                              A person engaged in the provision of broadband Internet access service shall publicly disclose accurate information regarding the network management practices, performance, and commercial terms of its broadband Internet access services sufficient for consumers to make informed choices regarding use of such services and for content, application, service, and device providers to develop, market, and maintain Internet offerings.26
                              4. Scope of the Rules

                              27. In defining this service we make clear that we are responding to the Verizon court’s conclusion that broadband providers “furnish a service to edge providers” (and that this service was being treated as common carriage per se). As discussed further below, we make clear that broadband Internet access service encompasses this service to edge providers. Broadband providers sell retail customers the ability to go anywhere (lawful) on the Internet. Their representation that they will transport and deliver traffic to and from all or substantially all Internet endpoints includes the promise to transmit traffic to and from those Internet endpoints back to the user.

                              28. Interconnection. BIAS involves the exchange of traffic between a broadband Internet access provider and connecting networks. The representation to retail customers that they will be able to reach “all or substantially all Internet endpoints” necessarily includes the promise to make the interconnection arrangements necessary to allow that access.

                              29. As discussed below, we find that broadband Internet access service is a “telecommunications service” and subject to sections 201, 202, and 208 (along with key enforcement provisions). As a result, commercial arrangements for the exchange of traffic with a broadband Internet access provider are within the scope of Title II, and the Commission will be available to hear disputes raised under sections 201 and 202 on a case-by-case basis: an appropriate vehicle for enforcement where disputes are primarily over commercial terms and that involve some very large corporations, including companies like transit providers and Content Delivery Networks (CDNs), that act on behalf of smaller edge providers.

                              30. But this Order does not apply the open Internet rules to interconnection. Three factors are critical in informing this approach to interconnection. First, the nature of Internet traffic, driven by massive consumption of video, has challenged traditional arrangements—placing more emphasis on the use of CDNs or even direct connections between content providers (like Netflix or Google) and last-mile broadband providers. Second, it is clear that consumers have been subject to degradation resulting from commercial disagreements,28 perhaps most notably in a series of disputes between Netflix and large last-
                              mile broadband providers. But, third, the causes of past disruption and—just as importantly—the potential for future degradation through interconnection disputes—are reflected in very different narratives in the record.

                              31. While we have more than a decade’s worth of experience with last-mile practices, we lack a similar depth of background in the Internet traffic exchange context. Thus, we find that the best approach is to watch, learn, and act as required, but not intervene now, especially not with prescriptive rules. This Order—for the first time—provides authority to consider claims involving interconnection, a process that is sure to bring greater understanding to the Commission.
                              2. Broadband Providers Have the Incentive and Ability to Limit Openness

                              78. Broadband providers function as gatekeepers for both their end user customers who access the Internet, and for various transit providers, CDNs, and edge providers attempting to reach the broadband provider’s end-user subscribers.122 As discussed in more detail below, broadband providers (including mobile broadband providers) have the economic incentives and technical ability to engage in practices that pose a threat to Internet openness by harming other network providers, edge providers, and end users.

                              a. Economic Incentives and Ability

                              79. In the 2014 Open Internet NPRM, we sought to update the record with information about new and continuing incentives for broadband providers to limit Internet openness. As explained in detail in the Open Internet Order, broadband providers not only have the incentive and ability to limit openness, but they had done so in the past.123 The D.C. Circuit found that the Commission “adequately supported and explained” that, absent open Internet rules, “broadband providers represent a threat to Internet openness and could act in ways that would ultimately inhibit the speed and extent of future broadband deployment.”124 The record generated in this proceeding convinces us that the Commission’s conclusion in the Open Internet Order—that providers of broadband have a variety of strong incentives to limit Internet openness—remains valid today.

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