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  • Inkjet or latex?

    We currently have two Canon IPFs -- an 825 MFP and an 8400. We use the 825 for blueprints and posters and the 8400 for outdoor signage, fine art, and canvas prints.

    Our lease will be up soon so I need to consider my options. I'd like to upgrade the 825 to an IPF 850 with an integrated stacker and scanner for blueprints. I don't think our volume would support a higher end ColorWave at 3x the price..

    I'd also like a unit more suited for outdoor usage so I'm considering latex for the instant dry time and low fumes. Or possibly an eco-solvent is latex is an issue....

    Does this strategy make sense? Or would I be better off keeping the 8400 for fine art?

    Currently we print all of our posters and indoor signage on the 825. Would I continue to run those jobs on the inkjet or switch it over to latex or solvent?

    Thoughts?

    Thanks!
    Joe
    Last edited by jdr999; 03-14-2017, 12:15 PM.

  • #2
    In my opinion the dot size on the Latex is to large for fine art prints. Given the texture of canvas the Latex print beautiful and durable canvas with no real need for over-lamination. I have both the iPF8400 and the HP L360.

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    • #3
      I edited my original post after looking at "Eco-Solvent vs Latex vs Aqueous Canvas Printing". So keeping the 8400 or upgrading to the new Pro may be beneficial. Food for thought..

      Another part of my question is what to delegate to inkjet and what to print on latex/eco.. I'm not sure which is more cost effective yet.. How do you handle this?

      And the other issue I have is engineering prints and economy posters. The 825 was pretty cost effective for these types of prints.. I don't think I'd want to start printing them on the 8400.....

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      • #4
        Well, first off and not to be too picky, but...

        They're all inkjets.

        The 825 and the 8400 use aqueous ink, a latex would use latex ink, and a solvent would use solvent ink, but those are all different types of inkjet ink and they are all different types of inkjet printers.

        Myself, I'm a huge fan of the 8400, and if I had one I most definitely would not be getting rid pf it. I'm also not much of a latex fan, although there are people who are.

        Right now, my favorite non-aqueous printer out there is the Epson 80600 (eco-solvent). I've seen many of these machines in photo-lab and studio type environments and odor isn't an issue. As well, you could get away with printing canvas you previously printed on the 8400 on one of these machines. However, if you print photo gloss, or fine art papers, such as just about anything by Hahnenmuhle or Moab, that won't be happening with any solvent or latex machine.


        Mike Adams
        Correct Color
        Last edited by Correct Color; 03-20-2017, 10:32 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Correct Color View Post
          Well, first off and not to be too picky, but...

          They're all inkjets.

          The 825 and the 8400 use aqueous ink, a latex would use latex ink, and a solvent would use solvent ink, but those are all different types of inkjet ink and they are all different types of inkjet printers.

          Myself, I'm a huge fan of the 8400, and if I had one I most definitely would not be getting rid pf it. I'm also not much of a latex fan, although there are people who are.

          Right now, my favorite non-aqueous printer out there is the Epson 80600 (eco-solvent). I've seen many of these machines in photo-lab and studio type environments and odor isn't an issue. As well, you could get away with printing canvas you previously printed on the 8400 on one of these machines. However, if you print photo gloss, or fine art papers, such as just about anything by Hahnenmuhle or Moab, that won't be happening with any solvent or latex machine.


          Mike Adams
          Correct Color
          Hi Mike,

          Thanks for the clarification!

          The only real trouble we have with the 8400 is the prints are easily scratched. For fine art it's not an issue but for banners and posters they are delicate. However I can always farm out the banners if necessary..

          I think I may end up with the 850 + integrated stacker and the 4000PRO - both with an Onyx rip. That may make the more sense for us. Any word on the 4000PRO over the 8400?

          Thanks!
          Joe

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          • #6
            You might want to take a look at this forum. A lot of good information on the new Canon printers and also seems there are issues with Chroma Optimizer.

            http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?board=6.0

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            • #7
              Any word on the 4000PRO over the 8400?
              I haven't seen or profiled a 4000Pro yet, so it's only my opinion and purely taken from reading their literature...

              But from what I've read and seen, I think the machine is a mis-reading of the market and a mistake. The "BIG" "HUGE" "NEW & IMPROVED" feature of these machines seems to be the "Chroma Optimizer" which I simply read as 'gloss varnish.'

              And myself, I wouldn't sacrifice the violet and green just to get it. I'd also note that even if it works perfectly and is a wonderful thing, it's still only going to work on gloss media, because that's what gloss varnish does. And I'd say that the vast majority of these machines tend to print on canvas and fine art papers far more than photo gloss, and on any media not photo gloss... gloss varnish is useless.


              Mike Adams
              Correct Color

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              • #8
                Reports from user I have seen they seem to think that the Chroma Optimizer is more than just a gloss varnish and they are saying without using it the gamut is lower than the previous iPF models.

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                • #9
                  Maybe, but if you read their brochure on it, it sure as hell sounds like gloss varnish to me. The way they describe what it is and how it works is exactly the way gloss varnish works on a litho press.

                  But the fact is that even if it's some magic formula and not exactly gloss varnish, it's still only going to work on a hard, glossy surface, because otherwise its whole effect is lost. So for anything other than photo gloss, it has no function.

                  As to gamut, I'm guessing that this machine is going to have a smaller overall gamut than the x400 series regardless. But of course until I profile one and compare it to my store of x400 profiles, I can't say for certain.


                  Mike

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                  • #10
                    For me, latex is also excellent in arts printing.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jdr999 View Post
                      I edited my original post after looking at "Eco-Solvent vs Latex vs Aqueous Canvas Printing". So keeping the 8400 or upgrading to the new Pro may be beneficial. Food for thought..

                      Another part of my question is what to delegate to inkjet and what to print on latex/eco.. I'm not sure which is more cost effective yet.. How do you handle this?

                      And the other issue I have is engineering prints and economy posters. The 825 was pretty cost effective for these types of prints.. I don't think I'd want to start printing them on the 8400.....
                      Typically you're looking at about a 30% savings when printing on a solvent/latex machine. The inks typically cost $260 for canon 700ml making your cost per ml $0.37. On an Epson Eco Solvent your looking at a price of $151.95 for a 700ml cartridge making your cost per ml $0.21 . On an HP Latex the inks are $135 per 775ml cartridge bringing your cost per ml to $0.17. However, HP Latex has consumable printheads that will periodically have to be replaced just like your current Canon 8400 has.

                      The other perk about running an Eco Solvent or HP Latex printer is the lower cost for print medias. The coatings on aqueous medias typically cost more to produce than the eco solvent or latex coatings while the base paper, canvas, or vinyl almost always start out the same.

                      If you'd like to learn more about the difference between aqueous and latex/solvent send me a private message.

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