Help!!! Mitsubishi Polyplate problems

[littledog]

We recently installed a Mitsubishi Eco 1630 poly CTP system. We didn't have any problems until 2 months ago now I cannot maintain the quality of the image. Our Press is a Hamada RS34 with the Kompac II dampaning system. I relplaced all of the rollers, had it serviced, changed the fountain solution 4 times and cannot figure it out. I even tried 3 different inks. It is toneing, scuming, and the ink will not lay on the plate evenly. Can anyone give me pointers.

 

[[email protected]]

A few thoughts

A few thoughts

Hi Littledog,
I know both the machines you have very well and they are very good pieces of equipment. You spent lots of time on the press repairs but have you considered the ECO being at fault? Or maybe the rip settings? Or the cleaning of the mirror etc? Are your other presses printing ok?
As a tech rep I would bring a set of plates from another poly plate made on another Mitsubishi ECO or DPX. Not a set of plates from a Ptek DPM as they are proprietary. They are rolled on the core in a different way.
Your problem should be easily fixed by a good tech.

OG

 

[amsman]

Poly Plate Chemical Lifespan

Poly Plate Chemical Lifespan

I hope I'm reading your post correctly, you have changed all the variables on the press, have you changed the chemicals in the Poly Platesetter?

We have a DPX and if you don't mix up fresh chemical's and top up the replenishment bottles at least every 4-5 days you will get the plate blinding you are refering too.

Or check that the replenishment system is working. ( Hoses plugged in etc.)

If the the activator & stabilizer tanks are left unreplenished for a couple of days it will "go off".

You will have to dump the chemicals in the tanks and flush ( Warm Water ) the roller cassettes and start afresh.

I hope this is the problem, this one's an easy fix......

 

[littledog]

Eco 1630

Eco 1630

Thank for the reply.

Yes, I do change the chemicals and clean the machine. The tech that trained us on it wasn't the best so I'm not sure if I do everything I am supposed to do. He told me the chemicals should not be diluted and pour right out of the container. Is that true. Can it be a bad batch of chemicals? Should I call tech support?

Thanks,
Denise

 

[DonBlock]

How do the plates look coming out of the Eco? The Black area should be a Dark Grey, not a real Dark Black (over exposure) and the Silver should be bright. If the Silver is a Bronze color the problem could be the coating of the Act. or the temp. of the Act.

 

[littledog]

The plate is dark grey and the silver is bright. It is not bronze.

 

[DonBlock]

It sounds like you need someone to look at it to verify all of the parameters of the processor are correct. I'm sure you have, but I'll ask anyway. Have you dumped the chemistry and completely cleaned everything including the tubes and pumps in case of contamination? One last note, if you feel that you weren't trained well during the install, you may try to see if there is someone else in your area that is more qualified to help you with the problem.

 

[littledog]

I cleaned it twice in the last two weeks and I haven't really used it. I changed the water, activator, and the stabilizer. I cleaned the rollers and the tubes. As for cleaning the pumps he never told us anything about them.

 

[DonBlock]

Put hot water in all tanks for the system and run it to clean it out completely. There was a question posted earlier about any other presses that you have and if you had the same problem on them? Are the plates being wiped down with etch? This can cause a problem. The new poly should be wiped with the same fountain solution mixture that they are using on the press if at all. Also make sure there is plenty of water during the initial start up and then reduced afterward.

 

[littledog]

We only run these plates on this press. As for etch I never used it but I did try it yesterday (it didn't help). I use the same fountain solution to wipe down the plate as it is mixed for the press and I do wet the plate down before start up. I will run the hot water through the tanks tomorrow first thing in the morning and let you know what happens.
Thank you.

 

[amsman]

Mitsubishi Plate

Mitsubishi Plate

In Australia, Heidelberg is one of the distributors of Mitsubishi Poly Plate.

Last year (around August September) the Mitsubishi Plate Material changed specification slightly, without any notification to DPX owners. ( Heidelberg are a bit of a Dinosaur in Australia with service )

We had similar problems for about a week, trying to sort the problem, dropping chemicals and refreshing on a daily basis almost.

Initialy the tech thought it was a weakening Laser, only to follow up and find out about the specification change.

We had to get the Laser ramped up on the exposure curve by about 5%.

Possibly only Australian batches, clutching at straws, but check with the plate supplier anyway.

With regard to the etch, we use nothing but water applied with a sponge, ( with or without Fount Solution ) any blanket or roller wash is detrimental to the plate.

 

[Dave Lott]

Kompac damps supply a minimum amount of water to plate, great for metal plates.
Poly plates need more water than the Kompac can supply.
Answer?
Make the water "wetter".
Add i cap full of AB Dick Silver(38704) wet per bottle of solution.
Mitsu makes the same product under their label.

 

[imagesquare]

Poly Plates

Poly Plates

It is your wash-up. As of Jan 1st 2009, no more step 1 and step 2 are allowed in california, I do not know if you are in california or not. Enviromental requlations have put in alot of changes in the printing industry. We had the exact same problem as you described. We changed our ink rollers, metering rollers, foam rollers you name it , we changed and NO fix. We then changed to prisco powerKlen wash-up. You need to clean the ink rollers through out with prisco powerKlen, then use hot water and vinigar to finish it off. Make sure the rollers do not have any oily residuue on them and they are velvety. Check your "PH" fountain solution mix and make sure you are within 4.8 and 5.3. If you are below 4.8, the fountain solution mix will attack your paltes and you will get tonning, if it is above 5.3 it is not enough ph in your system, and you get scumming. You can buy HANNA PH meter from ebay.
Believe me I had the exact same situation like you. Alot of sleep less nights and we finally got it. Good luck, email me if you have any questions.

 

[RGPW17100]

What fountain solutiton are you using? Pink? A company I used to work for decided their presses would clean up faster and better if they did not mix the water misable press wash with water. This caused serious problems with the rollers. The problem they had were non uniform lay of ink, stripping and toning. Their solution was to remove all the rollers and scrub with pumice powder. Using a metal fountain solution on poly plates can be an issue. Poly plates are not acid loving like metal. They use glycerin as a wetting agent. I have used total before on these plates and never got the life out of them as I did with pink silvermaster fountain. Burn a couple of plates for your service rep and have them try the plates at a different location. This will isolate the plate maker versus the press.

 

[SHAWN GUYETT]

plate problems

plate problems

i have been having the same problems on the same plates and they told me the plate machine needs to be calibrated for the new chem and plate material i am told mitsubishi's web site will walk you through this process. i am about to try this i will let you know how it turns out.

 

[[email protected]]

Eco

Eco

All CTP's need to be calibrated. Even when you change rolls. FYI that machine is now sold by Presswreck also. It is a good solid machine even if they sell it also. Find a good mitsi dealer in your area they will help you.

 

[Tommy B]

Poly Plate

Poly Plate

It is true that the material and chemistry changed about 2 months ago. See if the material is labeled either FRM (old) or FRS (New). They also changed teh chemistry from Type 1 to Type 2. Check on what you are using. The new material silver image area will have a slight gold to it. make sure you are using the new chemistry with the new material

 

[Lee Ornati]

"POLY" Plate problem

"POLY" Plate problem

It sounds like you have underexposed plates. The silver in the emulsion is what attracts the ink. When the plate is exposed to light the silver migrates to the bottom of the emulsion. When the plate is processed, in the area that is not exposed to light, the silver migrates to the plate surface and turns into metalic silver. This is what holds ink. If the non image area is under-exposed, even though it may look Black, or grey, there are silver particles which are attracting ink. Check your exposure. Here is a link to an explanation as to how to check for proper exposure, and a test chart that can help with that process. Welcome to Mitsubishi Imaging's Support Site there is a section here on exposure. If you need to send plates to be looked at you can e-mail me and I will set it up.
Thanks Lee
[email protected]
Mitsubishi Imaging Inc

 

[Reyn Hubbard]

You still looking for some answers?

 

[littledog]

No. We recently got rid of that platemaker but thanks.