Are there any process free plates that work well? Pleaae help if you know of a brand.

[Apphoard75]

We are using Kodak Sonora process free plates and it isn't working well at all. Does any pressman know of a process free plate that rolls up well on the press and can run well on a press? Also I would like to know what fountain solution you use and what you are mixing to a gallon. Honestly I think the process free plates were a horrible Idea with how they perform.weare using CTP and Sonora plates are aluminum not polyester. I have researched on the web and they all seem to have the same problem, rolling up on press and ink and water balance is very bad.

 

[Asures]

Happy to lend you some tech support.

What kind of press do you have? Are you running conventional ink or UV?

I'm a field technical sales rep for a major ink company and tech these issues all day long. Happy to share some tips and tricks to a fellow lithographer.

 

[Apphoard75]

Happy to lend you some tech support.

What kind of press do you have? Are you running conventional ink or UV?

I'm a field technical sales rep for a major ink company and tech these issues all day long. Happy to share some tips and tricks to a fellow lithographer.

Hello, we have a 2007 Heidelberg I believe it's a CX102. We are running conventional ink and it's sun chemicals ink and a two step Sun chemicals fountain solution, Blue chip and Alcohol sub Green Diamond. With Kodak Sonora plates that are process free.

 

[Asures]

Without knowing your pressroom or the environment, let me apologize in advance.

After the plates are imaged, are they being exposed to any sort of light (skylight or even your overheads) for any duration of time? Or are the plates being made, then brought out to the pressroom face town? Ideally - keep them out of any light until ready to print.

A quick test that you can do is hand develop a set of plates using your fountain solution straight from the tank. Once developed manually, hang the plates and see how they roll up for you. This will give you a clear direction whether the plates are an issue or the need to look at how you are making your initial pulls to get color (preamps, etc.).

 

[Apphoard75]

I haven't tried manually developing them. I usually let them roll up on the press for around a minute with only the water rollers dropped. Even after they are fully developed rarely do they run well. We have our water speeds at a minimum. We have a flatbed scanner and will see things like really high density on a few ink keys and very low density a couple keys over although the coverage and ink keys are similar and we have been running for a while. We also do not let the plates get exposed to light, I usually punch and bend them maybe 10 mins before and yes the plates are kept face down.

 

[Shawn007bis]

Sounds like maybe too much water to me. We're running the same plates on a RMGT 920 PF UV ink put the water forms down for maybe 5 seconds then drop the ink forms and 20-30 sheets they're developed already.

 

[Apphoard75]

Sounds like maybe too much water to me. We're running the same plates on a RMGT 920 PF UV ink put the water forms down for maybe 5 seconds then drop the ink forms and 20-30 sheets they're developed already.

Shawn what fountain solution are you using and what are you mixing it at to a gallon?

 

[Shawn007bis]

Shawn what fountain solution are you using and what are you mixing it at to a gallon?

We are using Tower Millennium 4500.....5 ounces to a gallon.

https://towerproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/MILLENNIUM-4500.pdf

 

[Asures]

Sounds like maybe too much water to me. We're running the same plates on a RMGT 920 PF UV ink put the water forms down for maybe 5 seconds then drop the ink forms and 20-30 sheets they're developed already.

They should be hung on press and ran as though they were already developed. A lot of operators have a tendency of letting them idle with water form to the plate for a minute and then dropping inkers. That never works.

 

[wonderings]

Every offset shop I know off is using the Sonora plates. Been a few years since we had offset but when I talked to another shop a month ago they were using the latest Sonora plates which they were raving about. Maybe some adjustments are simply needed on your end to get the Sonora plates running well.

 

[Apphoard75]

I figured out why our plates wouldn't roll up quickly, it was because we were running integrated. As soon as I hit the button to go deintegrated the plates rolled up fine in like 4-5 seconds. They have always ran the press integrated and now we are running deintegrated.

 

[Asures]

You have the option of starting in segregated mode for the initial plate roll-up. Once ready, you can switch back using the console buttons. Important to note that you will likely see elevated water speeds in segregated mode, which can lead to print issues later on (Drying, etc.)

Heidelberg offset presses generally perform better with an integrated approach to water management. Specifically, utilizing integrated continuous dampening systems like Alcolor, which combine dampening and inking units, is recommended. Additionally, maintaining consistent water quality through reverse osmosis is crucial for overall print quality.

 

[Apphoard75]

You have the option of starting in segregated mode for the initial plate roll-up. Once ready, you can switch back using the console buttons. Important to note that you will likely see elevated water speeds in segregated mode, which can lead to print issues later on (Drying, etc.)

Heidelberg offset presses generally perform better with an integrated approach to water management. Specifically, utilizing integrated continuous dampening systems like Alcolor, which combine dampening and inking units, is recommended. Additionally, maintaining consistent water quality through reverse osmosis is crucial for overall print quality.

Thanks Asures I will keep that in mind.

 

[connerj91]

We run sonora XTRA on a SM52 with Saphira Fountain Solution 224, 4oz per gal + 324 AS. This method has worked well for us and is pretty forgiving, we are running non-integrated 99.9% of the time in production and during setup. If you're buying FS from heidelberg your rep can come out and give you exact ratios needed for the FS and AS, takes them like an hour to test it. We've also run Saphira 208, which performs well.

The biggest issue with process-less plates that we've seen is trying to drop the ink forms too soon before the water has had time to process (break down the emulsion); the heavier the coverage on the plate the more true this is. I think the integration was definitely your issue. However these sonora xtra plates perform better than any others we've used over the last 20 years.

I always make sure the paper is feeding well before i hang plates, a stop during rollup causes the most problems, but it's usually not catastrophic needing a plate remake like older plates.

Idle Press - stay at idle speed for this whole first rollup process is best.
Drop waters on plates for 3-5 revolutions (minimum) is all we need, but we can let it idle with just the waters on for 15 minutes or more without much issues for the plate.

Start paper feed, go on impression (stay at idle speed) - the time it takes for the first sheet to hit the head stops is all the pre-damp revolutions you need for light coverage. Our pre-damp is set at 4 revolutions by default.

Staying at idle speed on impression, we let about 20 sheets of paper feed. Our press holds about 20 sheets in it, (5color + extended delivery/dryer) we just shut off the paper feed after the first sheet hits the delivery. If you have a shorter press just feed 20 sheets. These sheets can be used for positioning and registration (not color).

The emulsion will come off on those first few sheets, and yes these sheets might be washed out a little, no big deal. If we only had a few revolutions with the waters on, we will then immediately run 100 sheets through the press and start makeready for color. If the press got left on idling with the waters on for any reason, then we just let it idle for a little longer before we start make ready so the water disperses out, plates are unaffected by this extra water.

I think doing this first rollup at idle is imperative, it allows the FS to bite into the emulsion more with minimal sheet waste.

If the plates are sensitive from any number of reasons like leaving it in the light too long > 1 hour under shop lights, dropping the inks on too soon, a press stop during the first 20 sheet rollup, etc... merely dropping the waters back on the plate and letting it idle for a few minutes can fix the plates. Dropping the inks onto the plate with and without the waters, even alternating rolling the plate up with ink a few times and then letting the water clean it off can fix most rollup issues. If that doesn't work, we hit the plate with plate fix, I am sorry but i don't remember what brand we use offhand, but it is purple and it works great. If it still doesn't fix it we remake the plate, no sense in fighting any longer after this. This last process works great too if you have to stop a run and restart the next morning. Our FS has plate preserver in it, so we just drop the waters on the plates for a few revs before we shut the press off, typically they roll back up with no issues at all,