4 Over is Pegging My Paranoia Meter

[Drum]

4 Over does an excellent job for us and helps us be competitive in offset but I've been suspicious of their motives for awhile, and my suspicions are growing for the following reasons:
1) They are putting their logo on cartons which means they are attempting to build their brand instead of building our (their print distributor's) brand. We re-box everything we get from 4 Over but why are they interested in building their brand?
2) Introduction of redtagprintsale.com. I got an email this week about this. Again, this moves branding away from us, their customers, to an entity that 4 Over appears to control. This erodes the market value and presence of independent printers.
3) Prospects and customers are beginning to be aware of 4 Over which means that their branding is working.
Due to the above we are beginning to look for an alternate vendor. If you have suggestions please let me know.

 

[Happyprinter]

I think any time that a "trade only printer " packages with their logo on the box, you have to wonder a little bit why. It might be a innocent oversight on their part. They know or at least they should know it's going to you for resale. I guess their thought might be that you are going to repackage all that you receive before sending it to your customer but, I would find that a little hard to swallow. My suggestion, call them, tell them of your concern. Ask them why when they print for" the trade only", would there be a need for them to place their logo on the packaging. I'd be interested to know.

 

[Keith]

I guess they need new customers to help pay for those 9 foot wide, 35 color, 50,000 an hour Heidelbergs.

 

[Craig]

My guess is greed, they need more. What kills me is every time I try to use them my square pegs never fit in their round holes. Maybe they should allow a little more flexibility in what they produce.

 

[Mark H]

Having their brand on the box isn't a problem as long as they're not going direct to market with their product. If they're competing directly in your marketplace, then it's an issue you should be discussing directly with the vendor.

The flip side of the discussion is that "direct to trade" or "wholesale" printers have a very small margin to live off of. They need to price low enough to allow the distributor to markup the product, while still remaining competitive against the competition that goes direct and has more wiggle room to negotiate on price (as well as more profit to run the company on).

If the box logos really chafe your hide print your own labels and stick them on top of the printed logo.

Mark H

 

[damfino]

Try Welcome - Zoo Printing - haven't faild me yet.

 

[sallak]

Having their brand on the box isn't a problem as long as they're not going direct to market with their product. If they're competing directly in your marketplace, then it's an issue you should be discussing directly with the vendor.

The flip side of the discussion is that "direct to trade" or "wholesale" printers have a very small margin to live off of. They need to price low enough to allow the distributor to markup the product, while still remaining competitive against the competition that goes direct and has more wiggle room to negotiate on price (as well as more profit to run the company on).

If the box logos really chafe your hide print your own labels and stick them on top of the printed logo.

Mark H

that not good idea, if i got that box with the lalbel, first thing i'll do is to remove it and see who's the real manufacturer
as we printers looking for better and cheaper deals, our clients do the same, meaning many of them will go around you to the source.

putting thier labels on your boxes is not acceptable and not innocent as i see it, tell them to use blank boxes.
sometimes other brokers outsource thier work to me, i never put my logo labels on thier orders, i only put those labels on orders of my own direct clients.

 

[RNRPRINTINGNMAILING]

The only issue I have with 4 over is they use cheapest stock to produce some of their products.
And they have drying issues with their UV coating.
At least now I can talk to some in in Ohio who speaks English.
And as far as their logo on the cartons. From what I understand they print and convert hundreds of thousands., I have no problem with their logo on my stuff. I use the old fashion brown packing tape.
and it works wonders and than I put my label on the box.

As far as the Zoo printing My friend who has a shop not to far from me.
Use them and when he got his post cards. they were bricked. the coating was also peeling off the paper. Made me think twice about using them.

I send 4 over about 25 to 50 orders a week and only had one problem with one job.
it was in the cutting, their blade was dull and the cards had a lip.
but all in all they do a good job for me.

 

[Drum]

Thanks

Thanks

Try Welcome - Zoo Printing - haven't faild me yet.

Checked out ZooPrinting.com and I'm going to try them. Has anyone had any success with their free web to print application?

 

[RNRPRINTINGNMAILING]

zoo printing is higher in price

zoo printing is higher in price

Checked out ZooPrinting.com and I'm going to try them. Has anyone had any success with their free web to print application?

I have ask why do you want to pay more for products that 4 over is cheaper than and cna do the same work, even their shipping prices are cheaper.

zoo printing charges you a seperate for cutting.
I went to them to get a quote on a few things yesterday, and everything they quoted
was 15% more then 4 over

 

[jpress]

4 over story

4 over story

I did something through 4over once for a customer of mine. Within a month, they were soliciting them (my customer) for printing. A lot of so called 'online trade printers' do this for their own good...

 

[Craig]

I did something through 4over once for a customer of mine. Within a month, they were soliciting them (my customer) for printing. A lot of so called 'online trade printers' do this for their own good...

That can't be! I recall all the ads in the trade magazines that said they wouldn't do that.... they wouldn't lie, would they?

 

[damfino]

4Over missed two delivery deadlines, costing me an account.

It's price, service, and quality, right?

 

[RNRPRINTINGNMAILING]

Well like they say not everyone is going to be happy.
1- When you farm out any work you have to take into consideration how long its going to take.
2- if you need some back than pay the extra charge to have it done next day.
3- I have been doing business with them for a while and never had any of my customers get a call from them.
4- There are other companies that do what they do, And do you think they are any different?.
They say you live by the sword you die by the sword.




Good Luck

 

[damfino]

When I say they missed delivery deadlines, and I mean by a week! (They were starting up their NJ plant and were having press issues.)

I suggested transferring my job to another plant - no dice. I could not get past the generic customer support person. When finished, I offered to pick the job up to save a day and they refused. No cooperation whatsoever.

 

[saint]

Your an angry elf

Your an angry elf

The only issue I have with 4 over is they use cheapest stock to produce some of their products.
And they have drying issues with their UV coating.
At least now I can talk to some in in Ohio who speaks English.
And as far as their logo on the cartons. From what I understand they print and convert hundreds of thousands., I have no problem with their logo on my stuff. I use the old fashion brown packing tape.
and it works wonders and than I put my label on the box.

As far as the Zoo printing My friend who has a shop not to far from me.
Use them and when he got his post cards. they were bricked. the coating was also peeling off the paper. Made me think twice about using them.

I send 4 over about 25 to 50 orders a week and only had one problem with one job.
it was in the cutting, their blade was dull and the cards had a lip.
but all in all they do a good job for me.

1. Do you work for them? You seem annoyed if anyone has a negative comment.
2. 25-50 orders a week? You should buy your own machinery. You will build your business and have greater control over your product and save hundreds in shipping.
3. Your customers will eventually find a broker that will undercut your prices or go direct to the source. It's just a matter of time.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[RNRPRINTINGNMAILING]

I get annoyed when some one talks with out doing their homework.
2- as far as shipping FREEEEEEEEEE for all business cards.
3- I gang run Postcards and I than cut them down my self hence saving on shipping.
4- my customers are very loyal and if they can find someone that can do a better job thats great.
but that's not likely.
5- Again if you don't ask questions, and WHEN YOU ASSUME ( you no the answer to that)
6- Again read number 5.
7- as for business I started my business with $1000.00 5 yrs ago, I am now doing 33k per month, and thats not to shabby for a 3 man shop. And I also going to be signing contracts with 4 new customers that will bring my monthly income to aprox 45k per month.
8- I am building a 10,000 sq ft building on my property that will allow me to again increase my business.
9- And last but not least why do I have to have the headache of equipment breaking down and the smell of any coating in my shop.



ANYMORE QUESTIONS

 

[postnetnc133]

4over, zoo and partnerprinting are the top 3 I would say. neither are 100% perfect. Personally we use 4over because they were the first to get to us with 2 day shipping ground from their Miami plant. We have a hiccup every now and then but I no way put any terms that guarantee anything as they are just a gang run printer. If my customer needs anything guaranteed and I use 4over I stretch it by 1-2 days in case any hiccups or I push to use a local printer to do our offset which will cost more but the customer will pay for it if they need it rushed. I just find it humorous how some people have had good experiences with one printer and bad with others and some having good with zoo and bad with the others and so on. I will be curious to check out zoo and partner when they get their eastern plants up and running 100% and worked out their kinks.

For now I just need to get more volume going to 4over so I can get my meter higher to get better pricing.

 

[mitoman]

This is my first post and I'm not a 4over employee, just came here to find out more about some other trade printers.

Been using 4over for 2 years never had a problem, logo on boxes seems to be box manufacturer logo, and I've never lost any of my customers nor have any of them been solicited by 4over. Maybe a sneaky employee was doing some print sales on the side and was getting customer info off printed products.

I recently signed up for Zoo Printing but haven't ordered anything yet, I am very interested in their website offering but would like some feedback from anyone who has used Zoo Printing before I put money into advertising a website.

Thanks!

 

[creativebloc]

I have ask why do you want to pay more for products that 4 over is cheaper than and cna do the same work, even their shipping prices are cheaper.

zoo printing charges you a seperate for cutting.
I went to them to get a quote on a few things yesterday, and everything they quoted
was 15% more then 4 over

I had a similar problem and then I went looking for trade printers and I found Accela Print. I tried an order and I must say it went smooth. I like their customer service.

I hope this helps.