600gsm on Toner Press?

[TradeGraphicDesign]

Hi Folks,

I'm producing a gift product and thinking ahead for cutting out a few steps in production.
At the moment, i'm printing 4/0 on a 400gsm board.
Then glueing the board to a 610gsm Invercote Duo sheet from Antalis
Then, cutting to shape.

I'm willing to take a hit on the thickness and wondered if anyone knew of any digipresses (that aren't starship prices) that can handle 600gsm board? Is anyone out there running that kind of thickness and having a nice life or did they get a machine specced for 600gsm and its a pain to run.

Thanks in advance, hopefully there is something sub 100K out there that can do this.

All the best

Tim

 

[SoggyWinter]

The Starship Xerox iGen 5 the only toner based rig that can run 600gsm as far as I know. You could get a UV flatbed printer for under 100k. If you're in the US, Mark at Hasco Graphics and Nazdar Source 1 are good companies to talk UV with.

 

[TradeGraphicDesign]

The Starship Xerox iGen 5 I think is the only toner based rig that can run 600gsm as far as I now. You could get a UV flatbed printer for under 100k. If you're in the US, Mark at Hasco Graphics and Nazdar Source 1 are good companies to talk UV with.

Thanks for the reply, I'm based in the UK. But that does give me something to go on.
It did cross my mind about using a flatbed, I just wasn't sure if I'd get the repeatability of position on the sheet? I've got experience with Inkjet to roll but never used a flatbed, so i'll be looking into that.

Thanks for the suggestion. Tim

 

[[email protected]]

Xante makes some nice small-format flatbed UV printers, starting at 18x24" and I'm guessing there are other companies with the same but not sure about the UK. The registration is very good.

 

[TradeGraphicDesign]

Xante makes some nice small-format flatbed UV printers, starting at 18x24" and I'm guessing there are other companies with the same but not sure about the UK. The registration is very good.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll check that out. Its a bit of a rabbit hole, Flatbed, i'd not really considered it as an option, so I appreciate the suggestions.

 

[chriscozi]

Xante makes some nice small-format flatbed UV printers, starting at 18x24" and I'm guessing there are other companies with the same but not sure about the UK. The registration is very good.

I like the specs on those machines. Don't know about the supply costs. I would have bought one except they don't allow for roll material specifically latex. sigh.

 

[joannatianli]

Hi Folks,

I'm producing a gift product and thinking ahead for cutting out a few steps in production.
At the moment, i'm printing 4/0 on a 400gsm board.
Then glueing the board to a 610gsm Invercote Duo sheet from Antalis
Then, cutting to shape.

I'm willing to take a hit on the thickness and wondered if anyone knew of any digipresses (that aren't starship prices) that can handle 600gsm board? Is anyone out there running that kind of thickness and having a nice life or did they get a machine specced for 600gsm and its a pain to run.

Thanks in advance, hopefully there is something sub 100K out there that can do this.

All the best

Tim

Hi buddy,

Honestly? Running 600gsm on anything sub-£100K is a nightmare waiting to happen. Most sales reps will tell you "it's possible," but your operators will probably hate you after a week.

At that thickness, it’s not just about getting the board through the rollers. The real killer is the toner cracking on the folds and the fuser life. We’ve seen mid-range machines (like the Versants or older Konicas) handle it for a few hundred sheets, but the heat required to fuse the toner into 600gsm eventually cooks the rollers.

If you are already using Invercote Duo, you know it’s a premium, stiff board. If I were in your shoes, I’d seriously look at a second-hand industrial flatbed UV or even a used Inca/Oce if you can find one in budget. It’s slower, but you skip the "S-curve" jam issues entirely and the ink sits on top without the fiber-cracking issues you get with dry toner on heavy stock.

Just my two cents from being in the ink and print game for a long time. Good luck with the gift project!

 

[kslight]

Side recommendation, but you used to be able to buy a convertible stock that after printing on you folded onto itself for a super thick sheet.

Otherwise I think you have the right idea glueing two sheets together. If was approached to do this I’d probably just print it on vinyl on our wide format and mount it to a thick sheet of poly, etc, though a UV flatbed is probably the long term solution.

 

[tngcas]

Side recommendation, but you used to be able to buy a convertible stock that after printing on you folded onto itself for a super thick sheet.

Otherwise I think you have the right idea glueing two sheets together. If was approached to do this I’d probably just print it on vinyl on our wide format and mount it to a thick sheet of poly, etc, though a UV flatbed is probably the long term solution.

There's a company that sells the sheets. Multi-loft They have sheets that have pressure sensitive glue dots built into them and you print on regular cardstock and then put the thicker sheets in between and the pressure from your guillotine cutter activates the glue dots. I never really could figure out how you were supposed to activate the glue dots in the middle of the sheet though (for jobs bigger than your clamping bar).

I guess you could buy a 1-2 ton press clamshell press if you didn't want to use your guillotine cutter. Lots of those around that are that 12x18 size. Might be the most practical way to do this and then you don't have to buy a giant expensive printer and deal with the headaches. If you're cutting them out into special shapes you could run into issues if the glue dots aren't distributed evenly then some of it might not be stuck together. It's something to explore.

 

[D0N0TR0N]

Xante makes some nice small-format flatbed UV printers, starting at 18x24" and I'm guessing there are other companies with the same but not sure about the UK. The registration is very good.

Have owned a Xante X33 flatbed for 4 years, would not buy another Xante UV printer again. A lot of problems, a lot of waiting for parts being shipped, and time on the phone trouble shooting. And if you don't get extended warranties all of this becomes very expensive and a lot of time (often being down). Their software also isn't great, iQueue works ok, but doesn't feel polished. Just my .02.

 

[chriscozi]

Have owned a Xante X33 flatbed for 4 years, would not buy another Xante UV printer again. A lot of problems, a lot of waiting for parts being shipped, and time on the phone trouble shooting. And if you don't get extended warranties all of this becomes very expensive and a lot of time (often being down). Their software also isn't great, iQueue works ok, but doesn't feel polished. Just my .02.

Interested about what parts were a problem? I know they contract out their service calls if needed or you can ship it back. We got our supplies from a 'local' dealer.

 

[D0N0TR0N]

Interested about what parts were a problem? I know they contract out their service calls if needed or you can ship it back. We got our supplies from a 'local' dealer.

main circuit boards, twice, think they were around $1k each time. UV lights, print heads, reservoir plate where ink collects, ethernet port, I'm sure there's more. Mind you I maintain this daily, it is not neglected for weeks at a time. Some of this is general maintenance like print heads and dampers but main circuit boards? No. And all of this is over the phone, if you're not handy I would not recommend. Have a few other print stores I've talked to that have this same printer and all have had similiar issues. This is Xante's first step into UV Flatbed, just wouldn't do it again. Have heard good things about their other machines.

 

[Stickman42]

@TradeGraphicDesign I have no knowledge about this machine at all, but saw the listing and remembered your post.

 

[jwheeler]

@TradeGraphicDesign I have no knowledge about this machine at all, but saw the listing and remembered your post.

That's interesting...I immediately recognized that as a rebranded Oki...so with the help of AI, I found it is the OKI C9650 series from back in 2008. You can see the screen, handle, drawers, etc are identical other than color. What's odd is the Oki brochure lists 307gsm as the max weight it can handle. I'm curious what Intec modified to make it capable of 600gsm, other than the feeder.

 

[bill kahny]

I have an old oki 9650, thick stock makes it through it is a very straight paper path but registration sheet to sheet and toner costs will kill you. I always thought it was good quality look though.

 

[jwheeler]

I have an old oki 9650, thick stock makes it through it is a very straight paper path but registration sheet to sheet and toner costs will kill you. I always thought it was good quality look though.

We have an OKI C942 (much newer generation) and it still has the same issues you described. And while the quality is 'okay', it's definitely not as good as our Konica's. We bought it configured with the envelope feeder and conveyor output to run, specifically for the purposes of running envelopes. But it was terrible - constant jams and pausing to adjust. Now, it's treated like a glorified office copier printing out our job tickets and shipping labels. Fortunately, we opted to get it with the white toner which we do use occasionally.