8 Color - 4 over 4 Press? Any Opinions

[Nutech Shroff]

We are considering buy a 8 color 4 over 4 Sheet Turning Perfector Press. I am keen to hear from actual users with their experience with such machines. I am keen to know the limitation of the technology - what are the problems one is likely to encounter.

 

[printerpete]

well never run a 4/4 but... the most improtnt issue i would think is marking on the back side of the sheet once its been turned, i doubt you can run decent solids and decent speeds perfecting.

to go to long perfecting your probably better off with a 10 Colour so you can seal and even then its still going to be limited

 

[cheetoh]

We have a 10 Color Perfector, It is a Heidelberg and the newer presses have come a long way in the area of marking, Sure, there will be some marking, but not nearly as much as the older presses do, One limitation that you will have will be the thickness of the stock that you run.

 

[Nutech Shroff]

Thanks Guys for responding. I have seen machines at exhibitions but wanted to check with actual users.

Pete just curious - what press do you have - Make? Model? Age? Did you buy the press new? have you discussed the problem with the press manufacturer - what did they have to say? What kind of work did you try printing on this press? What is the stock? Coated or uncoated? Gsm?

Cheetoh - we run think stock - mainly 70gsm to 90gsm coated but never over 130. I hope that should be ok. What do you think? What kind of work do you run on the machine.

Also I believe the inks have come a long way over the last so many years and there are inks formulated for this application. Do they help?

My concerns have been

1. The Marking
2. The productivity - Are the 8 color equivalent to 2 Four color press in output or less?
3. Front Back - difference in image quality
4. Doubling issues after the perfector
5. General issues with perfecting.

Would be great to have your feedback.

 

[RGPW17100]

I dont have experience with an 8 color but my concern would be only able to coat one side even if you print both sides. Then again if there is a coater that can coat both sides of the sheet that would get rid of that problem.

 

[vik la luna]

stay away from heidelberg perfectors
get a press with a double double configuration
double impression and double transfer (a seven o clock configuration) and you will have minimum marking
doubling depends on how well you maintain your press ...gripper settings and regular greasing of cam followers

 

[Nutech Shroff]

Hello,

We were considering the Mitsubishi Diamond 3000 - It is a 7 O'Clock with Double Impression/Transfer. See Below.
MLP USA, Inc. - Sheetfed Presses - 3000R - Product Information

Any one with experience with this press.

 

[mrheidelberg]

stay away from heidelberg perfectors

Why is that ???

 

[REYES1377]

I have ran a heidelberg perfector and a mitsubishi perfector. The Mitsuibishi was by far the best. Easy to engage to perfect and almost no marking. It's all about lay out as well. production needs to give pre press the room for gutters.

 

[Nutech Shroff]

Hello Reyes - Can you tell me what Mitsubishi were you running - Model - Age - Color? Was it a sheet turning perfecting machine? Would love to hear more from you on the Plus and Minus of the Mitsubishi as compared to the Heidelberg.

 

[Mitsuguy]

Are you looking for a new or used? and are you in the united states?

 

[Nutech Shroff]

In Asia. Looking for a used machine - 2005 or so.

 

[RKS]

Komori Perfectors

Komori Perfectors

We have an LS1029, 2007 model. We have not experienced any marking and run heavy 4/4 or 5/5 coverage on it.
Have only seen doubling once in 3 years and the paper was extremely wavy.
We run mainly high-end ad agency work, so quality is the utmost. We had our first down series of inks modified and we can match front to back. This prevented us front having a dull-back effect on the down side.
Change over is very fast and easy.

 

[Nutech Shroff]

Thanks RKS - Its very encouraging to hear that.

 

[inkinveins]

In my opinion, the Komori LS P is the most efficient perfector, I ran a 10 40 LS P for a year and a half right after coming off a Heidelberg classic perfector. Some of the highlights are : Fully automated changeover, Physic driven upswing at delivery ( No marking ), venturi air cushion at delivery, movable slowdowns for gutter manipulation, Perfected up to 24 pt., Videoscope ( cameras at perfector ) and Automatic Makeready. We consistently ran speeds of 13, 000 I.P.H to 15,000 I.P.H. I feel like I had a lot more success ( production ) on the Komori, with less operator intervention. I know I sound like a Komori salesman, but I just really enjoyed that press. Beside the fact that I just love printing.

 

[marktonk]

I dont have experience with an 8 color but my concern would be only able to coat one side even if you print both sides. Then again if there is a coater that can coat both sides of the sheet that would get rid of that problem.

Hello,

Perfecting and coating both sides is possible, see link

Regards,

Mark

Heidelberg - Double-sided Printing and Coating

 

[inkinveins]

Hello,

Perfecting and coating both sides is possible, see link

Regards,

Mark

Heidelberg - Double-sided Printing and Coating

Yes, you are correct printing, coating and perfecting inline is possible, but you forgot to mention the little caveat about success being only guaranteed with U.V., Conventional printers that choose to go this route, beware.

 

[Nutech Shroff]

I have been offer some machines with coater after the 8th Unit - what is the purpose of a single coater - wouldnt both the sides have to be coated to give the same look and finish to the front/back of the signature. Can someone guide me on this.

 

[inkinveins]

Perfecting double sided coating ?

Perfecting double sided coating ?

One can still run this press as a straight press I.E., 8-color job with coating on one side, conversely you can perfect 4 over 4 without coating on either side. There is inherent problem with the process (perfecting coating over coating conventionally). This particular press that you mentioned, was most likely a stock press, double sided coaters usually are not.

 

[Mitsuguy]

Mitsubishi has many 2 sided coaters that run AQ coatings on both sides. We have been doing this since 2001. And yes we do stock these presses both dedicated perfectors and non-flip styles with coating on both sides. MLP USA, Inc. to see for yourself.