AB DICK 360 Problem

[splashdesignz]

Greetings,

I have an issue with my old 360 having finally isolated the problem after many weeks of struggles. The upper form roller will not engage when you turn the handle to ink. When the roller is not in place the mechanism moves without a problem moving the form roller into place against the plate cylinder. When we put the form roller back into place and then try to engage it the mechanism does not move.

We have cleaned the parts - taken them out and put them back-adjusted the stripe-which doesn't do any good because the form roller doesn't move toward the plate.

I am really at wits end. Consequently we get plate scumming etc. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Angela

 

[Al Ferrari]

No direct experience with the 360 here, but from general small press experience I would say your form roller fits much too tight in the side to side sense. Try to figure out how to loosen that a bit. The adjustment may be in the shaft itself (is there a set screw on the shaft handle?).

Good luck,

Al

 

[RGPW17100]

Also I believe the form adjustments on that press are eccentric. You may have to turn the adjustments the other way to make the roller engage

 

[Al Ferrari]

Re-read the original post. He reports that the form roller DOES NOT MOVE when the roller is in place and the handle is engaged. It's not a matter of it not quite reaching the plate.

Al

 

[splashdesignz]

So I've adjusted the eccentrics so that the roller doesn't touch the plate at all. Thinking that maybe I have something backwards. Still when I engage the handle I get absolutely no movement. The odd thing is we had it working well on Tuesday night but it was late so we decided to go home, get some sleep and start again on Wednesday and we were back at square one. After fighting it again until late last night I am at it again this morning.

I may have isolated the problem more this morning. When the form roller shaft is not locked in place in the form roller block the mechanism works perfectly fine. This is only the upper form roller. Once I lock the form roller in place I no longer get any movement. It also works perfectly fine with only the shaft in place.
I have just purchased brand new form rollers for this press as I believed that was the problem. I am now wondering if the roller I have is the wrong size. Going to see what happens when I put the old roller back in.
Thank you for being out there to bounce this problem. This is the part I dislike the most.. having the only technician at least 5 hours away.
Angela

 

[Al Ferrari]

If this is anew roller that ALWAYS acted this way, then change the roller. But if this particular roller once worked properly, then I repeat what I said earlier:

"your form roller fits much too tight in the side to side sense. Try to figure out how to loosen that a bit. The adjustment may be in the shaft itself (is there a set screw on the shaft handle?)."

Or may be when you had both form rollers out, you inadvertently switched the two shafts. Try switching them again.

Al

 

[splashdesignz]

I don't see a way to adjust the shaft. It is all one piece with no set screws. Both shafts are exactly the same. The lower form roller is larger and I've been careful to ensure I have the smaller one on top. I put the old roller back in and it works ok (meaning it will move towards the plate) but it is quite old and the ends are a bit swollen so it doesn't give good contact in the center which is where the scumming then comes as the plate dries out in the middle.
I would agree that the new roller is too tight side to side. The old roller has a bit of play in it but the new one has none.
My manual has a reference to roller end play that has to do with the slide bearing in the form roller block. Going to try that out and see if that makes a difference.
Al, I certainly appreciate your assistance in this.
Angela

 

[pdan]

End Play - that's what you need to set - almost none.
The bearings in the new roller may not be completely set resulting in a larger effective length.

 

[splashdesignz]

I was able to finally figure out the end play and adjust that. It was far too tight. We can now get movement and good stripe. We still get a dry spot in the middle of the plate but have made some adjustments to the aquamatic and are hopeful we have the problem solved but not holding our breath.
I didn't replace the water waver roller but I'm thinking that we might have to do that as well.
I'll post again to let you know if we've made progress.
Thanks again for your input.
Angela

 

[pdan]

wow, we're going way back thinking about 360's and dampening. Is that water pan roller bronze/copper in color?
Scrub it occasionally with common household scouring powder - Ajax. Avoid cleaning it with blanket/roller wash which causes it to collect ink. That roller should run clean, no ink.

 

[splashdesignz]

I believe we have the problem solved. Adjustment made to the bearing in the non operator side form roller block and a change of the water waver. Finally we were able to successfully run a job on this old 360.

Pdan - our 360 has the superaquamatic with a rubber water roller and chrome roller. We do have one of the old standard system with the copper rollers that we retired a few years ago. But I must say I nearly brought it out of retirement after the challenges.

Thank you to all for your assistance. I would never have thought to adjust that form roller block.

Angela

 

[CostaRicaPrinter]

On the 360 - it sounds like you found the end play allen screw - it is located on the non-operator block, and tightens the "tube" that holds the form roller shaft. The water waver roller should be teflon, unless someone changed it for a hard rubber one (not good). It is very important that all the rollers be good and clean. I'll probably get some flak for saying this (from the environmental folks), but the fastest way is to take the rollers out of the press, go outside, and clean them with a clean rag and lacquer thinner. There are other great products, but if you are trying to get up and running, this will get your rollers clean. They should feel fuzzy. It is important for the form rollers (and others) to be very clean in order to get a good impression. The copper roller and the water roller can be cleaned with some ajax or mildly abrasive house cleaner and then roller wash. It needs to accept ink - a nice smooth, even layer before putting in the fountain solution. May I ask what plates, solution and ink you are using? If you are getting a dry spot in the image, your water roller might be distorted. There is nothing like new rollers! Or the fountain solution might not be correct. I hope by this time none of this is needed! Good luck - BG

 

[splashdesignz]

Thanks for your input. I do have the hard rubber water waver on this machine and have for as long as I've owned this press. I have another machine which is now a parts only machine which had the copper roller. To be quite frank, I could never get it to print well.
We were able to get the problem fixed with the adjustment of end play. I only wish I had figured that out a long time ago. This press had been giving us lots of problems and since the adjustment of the end play it is running beautifully again.
We use poly plates made on DPM 2000 - a mitsubishi brand silver poly. And we use mitsubishi silvermaster SLM OD for fountain solution.
Again thank you for your input.
Angela

 

[Tomtech]

If it has a copper pan roller, it should be fully inked when in use. It typically has a hard water waiver roller and probably does not need replacing. The super aquamatic system has a rubber pan roller and steel water ductor roller and a soft rubber water waiver roller.
With a Super Aquamatic system, changing the pan roller, rubber water waiver roller and the top form roller will solve most water troubles as that is the path of the water to the plate. If the stripes of the waiver are narrow in the center, then a dry center of the plate could result.

Tomtech