Announcement cards - which printer and cutter/trimmer?

[EricFTC]

Good Morning,
I'm trying to start a small print business that's very specifically specialized. I'd like to create 5 x 7 announcement cards, or invitations in full color. My thought is to print these 2up on 8.5 x 11 card stock then cut them down. I have a small Ricoh SP C360 and manual cutter now to get by for now. The laser printer get it's done but still much to be desired.

I'm looking at the Konica Minolta BizHub Pro C6500 Konica Minolta BizHub Pro C6500 Color Copier/Printer with Booklet maker, Used | eBay

and a cutter Toolots, Inc. - Reliable Equipment Fast.

These are about my price range just to get going a little bit more seriously. Does anything have any other printer suggestions by chance? Any insight is very much appreciated.

Thank you!

Eric

 

[azehnali]

stick to what you have found anything better is significantly more in price

 

[Ynot_UK]

@EricFTC I would avoid the KM C6500, that model is over fifteen years old, it was KM's first venture into digital production printing and will be problematic in terms of sourcing parts and consumables as it has not been supported by KM for years now (generally machines are supported for 7 years from being superceded). Also avoid the C8000, you'll see them around very cheap too and there's a reason for that (search this forum, it's all well documented)

If you are looking for a cheap KM colour press, look for a C1060 or C2060 series with low mileage.

Also in terms of stack cutters, you can pick up a refurbished small format professional machine with no chinesium content, from a dealer for around the same price as the thing you linked to.

If you buy wisely, you don't need to spend significantly more to get significantly better. Keep coming back to the forum for advice. Good luck.

 

[EricFTC]

@EricFTC I would avoid the KM C6500, that model is over fifteen years old, it was KM's first venture into digital production printing and will be problematic in terms of sourcing parts and consumables as it has not been supported by KM for years now (generally machines are supported for 7 years from being superceded). Also avoid the C8000, you'll see them around very cheap too and there's a reason for that (search this forum, it's all well documented)

If you are looking for a cheap KM colour press, look for a C1060 or C2060 series with low mileage.

Also in terms of stack cutters, you can pick up a refurbished small format professional machine with no chinesium content, from a dealer for around the same price as the thing you linked to.

If you buy wisely, you don't need to spend significantly more to get significantly better. Keep coming back to the forum for advice. Good luck.

Thank you for the reply. Yeah the C1060 and C2060 are pretty expensive....well not expensive but out of my general price range by quite a bit. Basically, I would probably do low quantities at a time, 50-250 per job with max quantities a month being around 5000. It's been tough finding a printer that's bottom loaded and uses a bypass tray that holds thick cardstock while still keeping really crisp coloration.
I'll keep looking, and glad I found this website. Thank you again.

 

[EricFTC]

stick to what you have found anything better is significantly more in price

Boy that seems pretty accurate so far. I'm putting a lot of manual cutting and fixing jams from the printer into it, and to cut that out they sure do put a premium on the slightly better printers. Thank you for the reply.

 

[Ynot_UK]

It's been tough finding a printer that's bottom loaded and uses a bypass tray that holds thick cardstock while still keeping really crisp coloration.

The trays beneath the engine are only good for thin substrates, because of the curvature of the paper path.
On our C4080, we keep uncoated 80GSM A4 in Tray 1 and uncoated 100GSM A3 in Tray 2 and these trays/sizes are very little used. All our volume stocks (SRA3) go in the three trays on the vacuum fed deck or in the extra long tray, which are great as they have a straight paper path.

Also, avoid the bypass tray if registration is important, as this source will have the poorest registration (on any machine of any make)

If your budget is really tight, rather than buying an ancient production machine that is guaranteed to be a boat anchor, you could do a lot worse than having a more modern MFP to start you off. We started with a KM C454, then a C554, then a C454e, before buying a C4080 and a Pro951 three years ago, putting 1m+ on each of those MFPs during their lives. You'll quickly learn the limitations, such as manual duplexing, guiding very thick board manually on the bypass tray, etc. but will also produce some quite decent output.

The most important bit: whatever you buy, make sure you agree a click contract with a dealer before parting with cash for a machine. Otherwise you'll be haemorrhaging cash.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

For digital copiers if you're starting off just get into a lease on a barebones office production/production press. If you're doing less than that you'll be having a hard time competing against others. If you can't justify it you need to rethink your business. But don't buy a 15 year old digital printer unless you are a completely insane person. Put the responsibility of making the machine work (and the time required to do so) in the hands of a maintenance professional hired by Xerox etc. These are complicated, demanding machines.

 

[TJPrinter]

You may want to look at just a printer for your volume. The Ricoh SP C842 or the Kyocera P8060cdn may be just what you need to get started. I had the older version of the Ricoh in my shop some years ago and it was a nice little printer. Both the Ricoh and Kyocera have almost all user replaceable parts so no expensive service contract is needed. Both these printers offer a very low cost per copy compared to other printers in the same class.

Like others have said, stay away from older machines. Too much trouble and down time.

 

[EricFTC]

You may want to look at just a printer for your volume. The Ricoh SP C842 or the Kyocera P8060cdn may be just what you need to get started. I had the older version of the Ricoh in my shop some years ago and it was a nice little printer. Both the Ricoh and Kyocera have almost all user replaceable parts so no expensive service contract is needed. Both these printers offer a very low cost per copy compared to other printers in the same class.

Like others have said, stay away from older machines. Too much trouble and down time.

thank you, those do look interesting do you know anything about card stock trimmers by chance?

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

thank you, those do look interesting do you know anything about card stock trimmers by chance?

Best advice is to take a pretty good supply of sample jobs with you to demo the cutter you are going to use. Most users on this forum are using either a Challenge (likely my choice when we choose to replace our cutter), Polar or MBM (smaller cutter). Note that you could conceivably complete the job you describe with an automated slitter from Duplo (646 or similar). An automated slitter has advantages for small run quantities, but if you were to run 10,000 cards a guillotine would certainly be the way to go.

What is your budget for a cutter? It's not something you want to be cheap on.

 

[Ynot_UK]

Challenge cutters seem to be the popular choice for small format shops your side of the pond. Over here, Ideal and EBA take that place, with Polar being a step up. The stack cutter will likely become the most used piece of equipment in your shop and as indicated above, it's not something to skimp on. You need to be able to rely on it to 1/10th of a mm (or 1/100th of an inch in US money), know it's absolutely square and maintained safe so as not to leave anyone with a life changing injury.

Other than blade regrinds incorporating a couple of service/checks each year, the cutter shouldn't cost you a lot to run. Most but not all cutters with a hydraulic clamp use three phase power, so check on this in relation to what power you have available at your shop.

 

[EricFTC]

Best advice is to take a pretty good supply of sample jobs with you to demo the cutter you are going to use. Most users on this forum are using either a Challenge (likely my choice when we choose to replace our cutter), Polar or MBM (smaller cutter). Note that you could conceivably complete the job you describe with an automated slitter from Duplo (646 or similar). An automated slitter has advantages for small run quantities, but if you were to run 10,000 cards a guillotine would certainly be the way to go.

What is your budget for a cutter? It's not something you want to be cheap on.

Best advice is to take a pretty good supply of sample jobs with you to demo the cutter you are going to use. Most users on this forum are using either a Challenge (likely my choice when we choose to replace our cutter), Polar or MBM (smaller cutter). Note that you could conceivably complete the job you describe with an automated slitter from Duplo (646 or similar). An automated slitter has advantages for small run quantities, but if you were to run 10,000 cards a guillotine would certainly be the way to go.

What is your budget for a cutter? It's not something you want to be cheap on.

My budget is pretty small...Realistically can't spend more than a couple thousand for an entry level cutter and printer each. I'd love to work up to the production machines but not anywhere close to that right now. Just need something that can get me off a manual trimmer.

 

[TJPrinter]

thank you, those do look interesting do you know anything about card stock trimmers by chance?

I don’t have any experience with this brand of cutter. My concerns for something like this would be, safety, availability of spare blades and cutter sticks and then who repairs it. It’s nice that it’s a programmable cutter, but I have no idea how accurate or reliable it would be.

Look at a few more traditional cutters that small print shops and copy shops use like the Ideal 4850A. It’s not a programmable cutter but it’s built to last several lifetimes. This style of Ideal cutter has been around for decades and if you outgrow it, you’ll have no problem selling it or trading up with a dealer. There’s no need to buy a brand new one, you’ll be able to find some nice used ones from a local dealer or online in your price range. I have a slightly larger EBA cutter in my shop that I bought used about 25 years ago that was built in 1982 and it still runs great.

 

[Craig]

Find a local printer to partner with. They have the equipment and the knowledge. We partner with resellers all the time, no need for them to invest in the equipment or the infrastructure to run small quantities. Most will not want to deal with your client anyway. It's better for me to deal with the reseller. A lot less holding hands in that process.