Anyone familiar with ManRoland DirectDrive?

[Alberto]

Hello!

I'm an italian press operator in a little company.
I was just asking myself if there's anyone in this forum working on a ManRoland DirectDrive press...
I think that for companies which need to reduce makeready time this press could be a real wonderful solution so I was curious to talk with someone who works on it, if possible

Thank You!

Alberto

 

[nagrom]

Hello Alberto,
I was at a demo in Offenbach last week on the direct drive Roland and the printer went from 4 process to another 4 process. 4 plates off and 4plates on plus a blanket wash in 1min 45 sec. The printer did a full make ready and ran 2000 sheets all in 9 minutes. Direct drive really is the way forward.

 

[Alberto]

Hello Nagrom!
thank you for your reply!

I was at one demo too in Offenbach last week.. Maybe we were at the same time in the same place I saw the demonstration on that DirectDrive press and I was as impressed as you are !!
(I also saw another demo about "embossing" on Uv varnish on an HiPrint press.. interesting..)

I was searching for someone who has some direct real working experience on a DirectDrive because, you know, demo are always a bit "prepared" to impress customers..

 

[nagrom]

Yes , I saw that embossing too.

KBA also have the same direct drive, I have tested KBA, Roland, Heidelberg and Komori. The KBA and Roland seem to be the best at it.

Regards

 

[rbailleu]

did you see the new kba flying job change that was just announced. got a ten color. run it as a 5 color with no stopping. I am not sure that this is a great benefit. if you have a 10 color wouldnt runing 5 over five be better. I suppose a 16 unit perfector would be awsome. 4 over 4 continuous.

 

[Alberto]

I didn't know this new feature by Kba.. thank's rbailleu..

If I understood well they suggest to use a 10 color as 2 5 colors.. I don't know if it's so interesting in terms of "economics benefits".
However it seems that every press manufacturer is trying to reduce makeready time: I saw Heidelberg XL, Komori S40 and ManRoland DirectDrive but I haven't seen the Drivetronic of KBA yet.. By now I have to say that the faster press I saw in terms of job preparation was ManRoland DD: it's able to do plate changing, blnkt washing and preink at the same time..
Unfortunately I never saw it running in a real press room but just in demos..

 

[rbailleu]

yeah It seems odd to me. if you are going to buy a 10 color to run as one continuous run 5 color. why not buy 2 5 colors and hire another pressman. I bet you could run more work. I seems to me there is no return on this investment. you run continuous but you buy double the units you need. I cant see a time when you would not be better off with 2 presses. on long runs the 10 colors is great for 5 over 5. but on short runs. why not have 2 5 colors. especially with 3 minute makeready and 15k running speed.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

yeah It seems odd to me. if you are going to buy a 10 color to run as one continuous run 5 color. why not buy 2 5 colors and hire another pressman. I bet you could run more work. I seems to me there is no return on this investment. you run continuous but you buy double the units you need. I cant see a time when you would not be better off with 2 presses. on long runs the 10 colors is great for 5 over 5. but on short runs. why not have 2 5 colors. especially with 3 minute makeready and 15k running speed.

Which do printers think is more important? Time reduction or waste reduction?

I am curious about how this is viewed by printers.

Thanks for any comments.

 

[nagrom]

Which do printers think is more important? Time reduction or waste reduction?

I am curious about how this is viewed by printers.

Thanks for any comments.

Time is the most important of the 2 but closely followed by waste

 

[nagrom]

yeah It seems odd to me. if you are going to buy a 10 color to run as one continuous run 5 color. why not buy 2 5 colors and hire another pressman. I bet you could run more work. I seems to me there is no return on this investment. you run continuous but you buy double the units you need. I cant see a time when you would not be better off with 2 presses. on long runs the 10 colors is great for 5 over 5. but on short runs. why not have 2 5 colors. especially with 3 minute makeready and 15k running speed.

Guys,
I think the whole point of this is so that you can mount plates on vacant units while the press is running and then put them into impression on the fly therefore you can have a 0 minute make ready.


Regards

 

[Alberto]

I agree with rbailleu: it's a bit unusual the idea of buying a ten color machine to do short runs however I suppose it could be useful for someone..

Which do printers think is more important? Time reduction or waste reduction?

I am curious about how this is viewed by printers.

Thanks for any comments.

About Erik's question I have to say that I agree with nagrom: saving time is absolutely more important than waste reduction in our experience as little company.. (expecially in job preparation).

I suppose that reducing waste becomes very important when printing on speciale supports: sometimes I printed on special papers and in those cases reducing waste was more important than reducing time..

Regards.

 

[rbailleu]

my point is unless you have ultra short runs. would it not be better to have 2 5 colors instead of 1 ten color. if your run length is over 1000 I would rather have 2 presses

 

[nagrom]

my point is unless you have ultra short runs. would it not be better to have 2 5 colors instead of 1 ten color. if your run length is over 1000 I would rather have 2 presses

Hi Rbailleu,
All KBA are doing here is showing off a feature of the press where you can load plates onto vacant print units while you are running a job and get straight into the run of the next.They are not recommending to by a 10 colour to do 5 colour jobs they are merely showing off the capabilities of their direct drive which i have seen and is very impressive.

Regards

 

[rbailleu]

impressive yes, usefull is the question. I already love the one minute plate changers everyone is coming out with. was it manroland that has the planet scanner that automatically adjusts register before running. I thought my sm52 was nice. I see why I cant compete with the big boys. take a $3mil press and you can run 10 jobs an hour. of course if you have stock changes then you have a whole new challenge.

 

[Alberto]

impressive yes, usefull is the question.

I think that's the point.. All these new systems (DirectDrive, DriveTronic etc..) are impressive, but also expensive so when they become as useful as impressive?

I suppose the answer obviously depends on the kind of job.. but I think that only people who has direct working experience can give valuable information about it..

 

[sveibl]

Direct drive eats trees

Direct drive eats trees

We have the 1st 10c DD Manroland with coater in the US & WOW!

Our other 2- 6c Manrolands have been reduced to coating the 1 side the DD couldn't.

Less Paper on make readys in perfecting mode is big savings. Ours stays in perfect mode 99% of the time.

Works well in long & short runs. Record is 25 Makereadys in 12 hour shift. (Black plate change on frt & back)

Next upgrade will be platesetters that can keep up with it!

 

[rbailleu]

We have the 1st 10c DD Manroland with coater in the US & WOW!

Our other 2- 6c Manrolands have been reduced to coating the 1 side the DD couldn't.

Less Paper on make readys in perfecting mode is big savings. Ours stays in perfect mode 99% of the time.

Works well in long & short runs. Record is 25 Makereadys in 12 hour shift. (Black plate change on frt & back)

Next upgrade will be platesetters that can keep up with it!

the plate setter will be cheap and easy in comparison. congrats.