Anyone familiar with the Mitsubishi line of presses?

[ScotJ]

There is an auction coming up for a bankrupt print shop and a 6 color mitsu press is on the block, amongst other stuff.

Anyone know anything about these presses? It looks to have been manufactured in 1995 or so (from what I can see on the plate on the side).

Pics are attached.


Do you know if you can run 300 line screen with this press? Or is the line screen dependant on the plate setting equip you use? (new to offset, we currently do digital).

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

I have some limited experience with a 40" 5 colour UV Mitsi. was always considered a poor cousin to the other big 4 press manufacturers. I found some of the electronics to be a bit of a nightmare and they didn't seem to have the service support that the others had. Press printed well though. It all depends on how well the press has been maintained as to whether it will print 300 line screen, if its been abused then you may have a problem, just make sure the reason the owners went bankrupt was'nt because of the press!!!

 

[ScotJ]

I was initially looking at getting a QMDI or something entry level, but my hope is that I can pickup the asssets of this shop for sub $80k; and spend the money I save on some good operators to run the machines.

Local Mitsu guys said it would be about $10k to re-do the grippers and give it a once over, and have it in good working order.

 

[jbeniston]

40 inch presses from Mitsubishi are designated as 3F and 3G- (the 3G could run at 15000iph). This press is either a 3F6 or 3G6. At that time the presses had floppy drive for data storage, can you still get them? The machines had some interesting technologies. One important thing is that all of the sheet is completely out of the printing nip before it transfers to the next set of grippers. The dampeners could be controlled from the console in that you could choose integrated dampening, arch dampening, and semi arch dampening, most people choose arch dampening. The 3G version was able to de clutch the inkers, a useful feature if you wanted to drop a unit and run 5 colours. The transfer cylinder gripper pad bars do not have to be set when changing from paper to card board and back. A big time saving factor. The machines have very heavy inking rollers and sometimes the eccentrics used to adjust them can get jammed. A lot of the electronics are available off the shelf. The dampening drives can be found in places like Reliance Electric.
The presses printed a very sharp dot and were also pretty good with solids. This one is 15 years old and well along its life cycle. It is most likely ready for a fairly extensive overhaul. When new they would print a 300 line screen with no problem.
Lubrication of the gear side mechanisms is by a cascading oil shower and the cylnider bearings were left open so that the oil could flow in. Some of the main bearings are triple race roller bearings of quite large proportions . The oil pump, tank, and filter system is outside the press and easy to get to. They have a magnetic filter and a scraper brush for cleaning.
The blankets are fixed to the press a bit different to the normal way in that the lead edge is rolled under the tensioning spindle. A torque wrench is supplied with the machine but I cannot remember the setting for the blanket tension.
All in all not a bad machine but not the greatest either. Remeber it's fifteen years old and not new.
Get it set up properly and it should still print your 300 line screen. Hope this helps.

 

[ScotJ]

Interesting info - I really apprecaite it!

Cornishpastythighs - Out of curiosity, which manufactures are considered the big three? Heid, Komori, Sakurai and?

Also - what are the plate costs like on a machine like this? And is really capable of doing 10-12k impressions as advertised?

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

Big 4, Komori, KBA, Heidelberg, Man Roland. These are the guys who have the biggest market share of presses in the 40" and above market
Sakuai not on the list

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

Mitsi should run at 12k mechanically, Press condition and past maintenance will dictate good printing speed.

 

[CD102]

The kind of stock that is being run makes a big difference too. I had a CD102 that I often ran at its max of 13000 iph, but there were some odd reverse grain, narrow sheets that we were lucky to get 9000 iph.

 

[Mlpklr]

Being the current Service Manager for Mitsubishi; 12yrs as a Mitsi mechanic and demonstrator, if the press has been maintained remotely close to factory recommendations it'll run 13,000sph all day every day. I could put you in touch with a Mitsi user that at last visit had over 800 million impressions on a machine that was installed in 1994. That's over 50 million sheets a year! I've never seen it run less than 11,000 an hour and it's a 51" machine.

As far as brand comparisons........check used presses available on the market, see how many Mitsubishi's you find compared to the "Big 3" as I read reference to. There's a reason for it; when they're taken care of they'll run forever. You're inquiring about an "F" model; prior to this was the "E" model......Mitsi has 5 customer's with "D" models that date to 1983-84 still in production.

 

[Mlpklr]

Let me know the name of the company offering the machine or the serial number and I can provide you the service records dating from it's original installation. Unless it's what we call a "gray market" machine that was imported from another country without Mitsubishi's knowledge, I can tell you every bolt that's been turned on it. If it's a "gray" press it was never intended for sale in the U.S., it may not meet ANSI safety requirements, monochrome touchscreen on the console could be in another language, and MLP U.S.A.,Inc. would not have the original PLC program as back-up should some catastrophic electrical failure happen.

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

As far as brand comparisons........check used presses available on the market, see how many Mitsubishi's you find compared to the "Big 3" as I read reference to. There's a reason for it; when they're taken care of they'll run forever. You're inquiring about an "F" model; prior to this was the "E" model......Mitsi has 5 customer's with "D" models that date to 1983-84 still in production.[/QUOTE]

Surely there's more of the (Big 4) used presses available purely because there's far more of them out in the world.

 

[Mlpklr]

Sure, don't want to get in a debate with you about the "best" press. I've worked on Harris, Royal Zenith, Planeta, Omsca, Mitsubishi, and a couple Heidi's. Every press has it's good points and bad points.....really comes down to the quality of the operator. I've seen more than my share or pressman blame their own inadequacies on press "problems", and yet I've seen pressman printing beatiful work with a worn or damaged press I never would have thought capable of such.

If you honestly compare apples to apples you'll see Mitsubishi's don't turn over at the rate of competitors.

Mitsubishi has an accredited Service Dept. We have a 24hr response rate; press goes down we'll have someone on site in less than 24hrs. Less down time means more profit. Call Heidelberg or Komori at 6pm on a Friday and see if you see a mechanic by 6pm Sa****ay? Unless your a customer with multiple Heidi's or Komori's I'd be extremely surprised if you do. I've personally waited 2 weeks for a Planeta electrician to show up (we had two Planetas), and a friends Heidelberg jammed up with multiple sheets of 24pt...he waited 2 weeks for a mechanic.

Sometimes the support is worth more than a name, every press prints!

 

[Mlpklr]

As a side note; I spent 12 hours on Sa****ay working on a customer's catastrophic crash......ask the Service Managers of the "Big 4" if they are willing, and much more importantly, capable of repairing such a crash if you're press is down.

How many times have you seen the person you talk to at the press manufacturer's headquarters show up to repair your machine? When push comes to shove are they really beneficial to you?

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

Learning and Debate is what this site is all about. We have both Komori's and Heidelbergs and find the service excellent, I cannot imagine any press owner/manager waiting 2 weeks for a service guy in this day and age and even 24hrs is pushing it. All the major presses are good lets face it they wouldn't survive 5 minutes in this climate if they weren't.

 

[Mlpklr]

Given! My experiences differ from yours, which is what formulates our individual opinions. I can tell you that being in my position now, I strive to provide the level of service I wished I'd had while running a press.

 

[Mlpklr]

Cornishpastythighs - just noticed the UK location, I must admit I know absolutely nothing about the market across the pond! My comments pertained to the U.S. market; glad to here your Komori and Heidelberg service is excellent. With the costs of printing presses what they are, excellent service is what every customer deserves.

 

[CD102]

I've personally waited 2 weeks for a Planeta electrician to show up (we had two Planetas), and a friends Heidelberg jammed up with multiple sheets of 24pt...he waited 2 weeks for a mechanic.

What was the point of waiting for the Heidelberg tech? Where was the paper jammed?

We had it stuck once between blanket cylinder and impression cylinder in the coater. So we pulled, ripped and tore out as much as the paper as we could. We pulled off the coating blanket. I think we actually cut it of to be honest. We removed as many guards as we could. And finally, this bit was not my idea but what we were told to do: we took an electric sawzall with a long blade and inserted it horizontally between the cylinders and used that to basically saw the jam into paper dust. It really didn't even mark up the cylinders much more than if you had been using sandpaper.

Like I said, it wasn't my idea. But it probably beats waiting two weeks for a Heidelberg tech.

 

[Mlpklr]

Didn't wait 2 week for Heidelberg to remove the paper, waited 2 weeks for Heidelberg to evaluate the damage and order parts. Bent journals when it locked as well as twisting up a substantial amount of additional parts.

 

[Mlpklr]

And to thoroughly piss him off there was a Heidelberg mechanic working at a shop 2 blocks away that wouldn't even bother to look at it. Needless to say he has purchased no more Heidelbergs.

 

[CD102]

I would guess that maybe someone should invite a representative of Heidelberg to read and to respond to the claims that you have made.