Best Proofers to use with Rampage Workflow

dkkurth

Member
Hi All,
Need some advice on large proofers. We currently have an Epson 9600 Stylus Pro with Oris Color Tuner that is starting to age and are looking for the next best thing to use along with our Rampage System 10.4. We would like a user friendly software for calibrating. Must do the same types of proofs that the Epson can. Oris hasn't been the best for being user friendly. Any and all advice would be welcome :)
 
If by saying "user friendly" you mean "easy to use", I think it's fair to say that virtually none of the current proofing systems software is user-friendly. In fact, the better products in terms of accuracy and consistency tend to be less user-friendly than lesser products. Most products are relatively difficult to install and set-up, generally requiring someone certified on the product, but once set up correctly, certain systems stand out as easier to maintain than others.

Having said that, if what you're looking for is a printer+software combination that is a virtual no-brainer in terms of maintaining calibration with minimal operator intervention, I would suggest you consider GMG Colorproof and either one of the HP "Z" series printer (HP z2100 for example) or the Epson x900 series with the PreProofer option. Both of these printing systems include an embedded spectrophotometer either as part of the printer or as an option. The embedded spectro, along with the GMG software, makes manual calibration a thing of the past. And GMG, like virtually any current proofing RIP software these days, interfaces just fine with your Rampage system by virtue of RAMproof Contone (TIFF) and RAMproof Postscript....that's probably what you're using already with your CGS proofing system. GMG + embedded/internal spectro is a virtual hands-off calibration solution.

I've got a couple of customers in Iowa with GMG plus both Epson and HP "z" printers. Contact me off-list if you'd like more info. I'm also very versed with the Rampage system so I should be able to answer any questions you may have.

Regards,
Terry Wyse
 
All of the "big 3" inkjet RIP vendors (EFI, CGS and GMG) have released new versions that have vastly simplified GUIs. I believe it is rather improbable that anyone can make a (valid) blind recommendation to you w/o knowing more about your specific requirements.

Here is my $.02....:

1. Let your inkjet paper usage and plate usage leverage your purchase.
2. The new EFI/Epson bundles are worth looking at. We have every current inkjet printer on the market (in our lab) and the Epson and Canon units are simply better made than the HPs. But, for many, the RIP is oure overkill plus Epson support for RIPs is yet unproven.
3. If you already have profile making software (Monaco, etc.), then all you will really need is a new RIP and a 44" driver for the 9600 or 9900.
4. If you are a Rampage user, then you are probably also a Fuji customer. FGS USA does not sell GMG. They do sell CGS and EFI.
5. If you only need a new RIP and driver, then EFI Fiery XF is a very cost effective option @ $1,995.00. Jeez, if you trade in your old CGS RIP, you will get a fat discount, too.
6. They will ALL WORK fine.

Make sure you get a professional to install the RIP.
to see an online demo of EFI RIPs, please go here: Chromaticity | EFI Fiery® XF
 
1. Let your inkjet paper usage and plate usage leverage your purchase.
2. The new EFI/Epson bundles are worth looking at. We have every current inkjet printer on the market (in our lab) and the Epson and Canon units are simply better made than the HPs. But, for many, the RIP is oure overkill plus Epson support for RIPs is yet unproven.
3. If you already have profile making software (Monaco, etc.), then all you will really need is a new RIP and a 44" driver for the 9600 or 9900.
4. If you are a Rampage user, then you are probably also a Fuji customer. FGS USA does not sell GMG. They do sell CGS and EFI.
5. If you only need a new RIP and driver, then EFI Fiery XF is a very cost effective option @ $1,995.00. Jeez, if you trade in your old CGS RIP, you will get a fat discount, too.
6. They will ALL WORK fine.

To the points above....

1. Good advice...if you want the best "deal" and you want your proofing system purchase dictated by your plate and media dealer. Personally, I think it's a bad idea. Do your homework and find the best system that meets your needs before you go looking for the best "deal". A proofing system deal tied with consumables isn't necessarily the best deal for the customer but probably IS the best deal for the dealer.

2. I have no problems with either Epson or Canon products but as far as I know, Canon does not include an embedded spectro option and Epson charges extra for theirs whereas HP includes the embedded spectro for essentially the same cost as equivalent printers that don't have the spectro. If you go for a non-embedded spectro printer, expect to pay at least $1K for a MANUAL spectro or about $4K for an automated spectro. But note that in MOST cases, the built-in/embedded spectro in these printers are for linearization/calibration but NOT for general profiling. In other words, if you intend to create your own press profiles and such and not work with standard GRACoL/SWOP/whatever data, you will either need to purchase your own off-line spectro or have the guy that's going to install your proofing system do this for you, usually for extra charge. In other words, don't get sucked into paying for a $2.5K built-in spectro option only to find out you still need a $4K off-line spectro IF you intend to do your own press profiling.

3. ....but if you DON'T own 3rd party profiling software and your RIP requires it to get *high quality* profiles, expect to add around $2,000 to the TOTAL cost of the proofing system (GMG includes its own profiling software).

4. If you're a Rampage customer, you're not locked into Fuji products and services. I have plenty of Fuji customers that are pleased as punch with their GMG (or whatever) proofing system....in fact, in many cases it replaced their original proofing system and they're better for it. Don't think for a minute that you're tied in any way to just what your dealer offers....even if it's not their product, they will still want to keep your consumables business. Do what's best for you, not necessarily your dealer.

5. The EFI Fiery XF is indeed a very cost-effective option...just be fully aware of what it does NOT include. As far as competitive upgrades, other RIP vendors do the same.

6. Indeed, they all DO work fine..although some work finer than others. :)
There's no argument that many RIP products, from ColorBurst all the way to GMG, can and do produce an acceptable visual and numerical match to a press sheet. I still feel there are worthwhile differences between the different products in terms of the QUALITY of the press match but it's probably quibbling.
Where I DO think these proofing RIP products differentiate themselves is in their method of KEEPING the system matching the press over time....in other words, their CALIBRATION process (as opposed to profiling) tends to be the key differentiator these days, something that is NOT tested in various proofing "shoot-outs". You need a system that is able to maintain a high quality match over time and precious few of these systems have the calibration "foundation" to do this adequately....in fact, many of these systems still require that you re-profile the inkjet system AFTER you've performed a re-calibration in order to maintain the same proof-to-press match as before. I've personally only worked with 3 systems that have what I would consider an adequate calibration routine...and only 1 out these 3 used ICC profiles.


And as Ian said, be SURE to get a professional to install your next proofing system.

Regards,
Terry Wyse
 
I'm was a staunch EFI with E9800 advocate, but now I'm at a place that has an Oris ColorTuner along with 2 9800's. Both Rips are confusing as hell to linearize and calibrate if done by the book, but the CGS tech guys helped e a lot via phone and e-mail without ever charging me a dime. Whatever you do get that automated specrto.
 
Don't mean to hijack the thread but along with finding a good proofer, have they made any changes on making it easier to back up proofs more accurately? We also have a 9600 and backing up two sided proofs is not very user friendly.
 
Don't mean to hijack the thread but along with finding a good proofer, have they made any changes on making it easier to back up proofs more accurately? We also have a 9600 and backing up two sided proofs is not very user friendly.

Nope, not as far as I know. The 9600 isn't meant to be a two-sided proofer so you're pretty much on your own. Having said that, it can be done if you're willing to use sheets instead of rolls and don't mind fiddling with the paper size, margins and offset settings in the Rampage RPD profile.

If you can get paper cut to the exact size of your plates (or your imposition "page"), the setup can be fairly straightforward. I have a customer in Iowa using GMG for backed-up proofs and it's working like a champ.

-Terry
 

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