Buying a used Press Roland 706+LV Good or bad

[loopyg66]

.....Every time that manroland came out with a new technology, their techs were either trained at the factory or trained in the field. These are electrical engineers that went to trade schools and actually learned the fundamentals of electrical engineering, including the digital and fiber optics technology found on many of the machines. It is not very difficult to a legitimate electrical engineer to keep up and stay abreast of the technology. That is if you are an actual electrical engineer, not a grease monkey pretending to be one. Also, experience has a lot to do with the ability to adequately use your analytical and troubleshooting skills. Of course, personal abilities varie from tech to tech.

The question was, when was the last time YOUR techs were back at the factory for training?
It's a nice thought to think they sent all their techs over for training. It was too expensive and most only learned about German beer and schnitzel.

 

[REYES1377]

From some of my own previous experiences, don't do it. You truly get what you pay for.

 

[Francois]

The question was, when was the last time YOUR techs were back at the factory for training?
It's a nice thought to think they sent all their techs over for training. It was too expensive and most only learned about German beer and schnitzel.

I can only speak for the electrical system, since we are not mechanics. Training occurs every time that substantial new systems or technologies emerge. Our techs, including myself, are continuously staying abreast of what is new and relevant to automation controls as it relates to printing and converting equipment. DC drives, stepper motors, PLC’s and inverters are all widely used not only on manroland presses but other equipment as well. A lot of what they do is not tremendously high tech, quite to the contrary. However, they make it proprietary and in itself make it an exclusive system. As far as going to the factory (manroland) for training, it has been a while, but only because nothing really new has come out since the advent of the R700's and R900's (that was in the mid 90's). Manroland has only made incremental improvements, mostly on component reliability and design. Once you have a good understanding on how the system architecture works, it is the day to day troubleshooting that teaches you the most. Having good documentation is another big part of being top notch. As I mentioned prior, for an experienced electrical engineer, keeping up is not a problem. I can see where people unfamiliar or with no knowledge of electrical systems may feel overwhelmed by all the blinking lights. It really is not a big deal.

 

[Presselectronucs]

manroland technicians as well as well trained independent electricians and mechanics should have no problems re-installing a roland press. As a matter of fact, I used to be a manroland tech several years ago and continue to this day to work and relocate manrolands with no more problems than any other press.

Are you kidding me? Let's be perfectly honest here. The Japanese presses are the easiest to move and the German presses are the hardest, period! As for startup problems, some Man Rolands installs can go smooth but quite a few are nightmares!

 

[Presselectronucs]

Francois " I can see where people unfamiliar or with no knowledge of electrical systems may feel overwhelmed by all the blinking lights. It really is not a big deal."

Your being an Electrical God does not change the fact that Man Rolands are notorious for difficult startups. The two best presses out there are KBA's and Komori's.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

I can see where people unfamiliar or with no knowledge of electrical systems may feel overwhelmed by all the blinking lights. It really is not a big deal.

I have to agree.

I have heard that manroland presses are much more complicated than they need to be. This may be true but I don't have any knowledge to know sure.

But what I can say is that more complicated systems require technical support that is better educated and better trained and with more documentation and experience than simpler systems.

I can also say that some technical support people who have the extra education and training, can be much more effective than those with less education and training. For some, a problem can be a big problem and for others the same problem can be just a small one. I have seen this a lot over many years.

Complicated systems need a higher level of support. But I would also say that it is better to have production technology designed as simple as possible for the production work that is required. A great deal of thought should be put into making a system easy and less costly to maintain.

Maybe a decision to buying a used press should consider the level of ability of the technical support there is going to be locally.

 

[Francois]

Are you kidding me? Let's be perfectly honest here. The Japanese presses are the easiest to move and the German presses are the hardest, period! As for startup problems, some Man Rolands installs can go smooth but quite a few are nightmares!

As I said, with decent training and a solid knowledge of electrical systems, one should have no problem installing German presses any more than others.
With that said, they are a bit more sophisticated in that they use a multi-board architecture, as opposed to most Japanese which tend to integrate more (hence less boards to play with). The only problem with integration and multifunction circuits is that it becomes a costly in after market service. Also, many presses in general are installed by mechanics, and at the risk of offending some, I must say from experience, they are very limited in what they can do once they get into trouble. So, unless it is a press from the 1900’s, use electricians AND mechanics who are familiar with the equipment .