Cap and Trade

----Bleh----

----Bleh----

Talk about a "gimmie" to China. With a stroke of a pen they have flushed manufacturing in the US right down the toilet. If a car company has to spend 100mil in the us for carbon credits and ZERO in Mexico or China what do you think they will do?

Please don't talk about tariffs. China owns congress (and most of us by way of our debt) and they will never have "green" tariffs imposted.


Since they didn't even read it I can only assume that 50% of the bill is pork bribing all that signed it in. . .
 
amen to that, and the media makes fun of the tea parties. there is going to be revolt in this county. there is a favorite quote of mine: freedom of the press belongs to those who own one. - aj leibling ?
printers are going under left and right. and nero fiddles whilst roman burns. I say to you printers out there print for the correct candidates and make them win. joe the plumber for president. bob the builder for congress. My lord why do unions back these idiots, the current set of idiots
 
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oh and how do you vote on a bill with out reading it. boy the dems are hitting it heavy with this one. can you tell I am a right wing extremist. please dont tell janet napolitano, I might be rounded up with our soldiers. sorry for the rant.

yes the cap and trade system is crazy. I would rather they just raise the income tax and give it to the wind companies.
 
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the cost of this program was almost 2,000,000,000.00 with a b for billion. and that was for sulf dioxide only. did they try any other way. obviously someone can reduce emissions to provide the trade. require everyone to meet the standard. cafe standards for instance. you cant buy toyotas excess mpg. there will be no end to the carbon tax. humans are a big carbon producing machine.
everything we do uses carbon. and they wont do nuclear, appearantly thats bad too. so its wind, water and solar only. are we going to require all imports to be made in the same way or be taxed to cover the cost of the carbon. just too many questions and they added 400 pages to the bill just before voting on it. gordo your a smart guy, does this sound like a smart way to pass a bill to you.
 
Not everyone believes that en masse outsourcing of industry is inevitable...

http://www.eenews.net/public/25/10808/features/documents/2009/05/06/document_cw_01.pdf

Not everyone believes that the European program is ineffective...

MIT Report: World Can Learn From European Cap-And-Trade System � Environmental Leader � Green Business, Sustainable Business, and Green Strategy News for Corporate Sustainability Executives

Of course there are a plethora of anti-cap and trade opinions and data out there as well. I guess in forming an opinion in whether cap and trade is good or bad, one must first decide whether you believe CO2 emissions have a substantial negative effect on the environment...enough to take action, whether you think the a cap on emissions is more effective in reducing C02 than say, an emissions tax, whether you believe the benefits of the program or worth the sacrifices or if doing nothing will result in much larger problems later on. I know I'm oversimplifying this issue, but I have to side with action rather than inaction.
 
If there is money to be traded or collected or transferred and governments and bankers and traders can skim their cut. The systems in place will always show as positive.
 
Europe has taxes and tariffs on everything coming in. It works because they are protective of their jobs and believe in craftmanship.

America is not like this. By imposing cap and trade without a tariff system in place for "dirty countries" it will be worthless. Companies will pass along the pain to the middle and poor. The middle and poor will just buy more products from the cheaper manufacturers.

Again, dirty US companies will not get cleaner. They will simply buy the credits and add that to the cost of the product. The people will then be squeezed on our personal carbon usage in order for the traders to have more to trade.

"I'm sorry but you have breathed enough for today."
 
Obama said during the campaign that we can't drive our SUV's, eat as much as we want and keep our thermostat at 72 degrees and expect every other country to say "okay."

I expect now that we've made an economic suicide pact to transfer our polution (i.e., industry) a few thousand miles away to make us feel like we're doing something in order to ease our collective carbon-footprint guilt and hopefully reduce the average global temperature by a couple hundredths of a degree celsius (assuming the 100% consensus among all of those smart scientists in the unequivocally settled debate is correct -- it's okay, I just bought some sarcasm offsets), that the other countries will gladly say "okay."
 
so if barack obama smokes a cigarette. and I don't I should be able to sell my non smoking credit to him and make money. does a pro foot ball player have to pay the skinny computer geek for the difference in what they breathe.
 
I do strongly believe we need to get our act together environmentally including green house gases. I do think the hollow skulled, egotistical, power hungry idiots in our federal government are convinced they are slowly pushing us into high efficiency and a more intellectually based society. WHICH IS NOT A BAD THING. The basic premise is to make us cleaner, more efficient, healthier and thus keep our superpower status. The method is the problem. The classic carrot and stick scenario sums it up perfectly. Our government only seems to understand stick theory. Use the stick too much (a la this completely asinine energy bill) and hopefully the people will eventually come out of this reality TV, michael jackson, text messaging and twittering coma. Many forget the USA consists of those who threw in the towel of their old country for a fresh start. Those of us born here are taught from day one not to forget that. There is no new free land to flee to and the result of a real American uprising could be disastrous. We need to place the carrot in front of small business and reward those who take steps forward.
Take responsibility for yourself, then reclaim your rights. Rights and responsibilities are mutually dependent. Everyone seems to want to invoke their rights (especially political parties) but do no want to accept their responsibilities. Tune out of the mass media garbage and turn your brain on. Read a nonfiction book, attend your local council meetings, watch CSPAN every once in a while. It starts small and local. One only has to look at how many states are financially collapsing and falling apart to see that we are failing ourselves as a society by focusing solely on our individuality. Do not sit back and bitch and complain, do something.
 

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