cutting business cards

[onlinestar]

Hi guys,

I'm trying to price my options to cut high volume business cards (250k cards a day)... so - if for example we print on 13x19 uv-coated 350gsm 16pt, 25up... and we need a simple reliable fast speed cutting, minimum 50 sheets / minute, with as much automation and as little operator. Let's say we are not worried right now about sorting. It just have to take a huge stack (250 minimum sheets) and just quickly cut it. On a wish list - some sort of the on the fly print shift correction...

so the only 2 options I was able to find is Duplo-745 (but lacking speed), and some kind of a Rollem system (but was not able yet to determine model and options).

But those solutions are roughly rounding $100k and $150k respectively...

does it really take $150k to cut business cards??? are there alternatives?

 

[bertman98]

Hi guys,

I'm trying to price my options to cut high volume business cards (250k cards a day)... so - if for example we print on 13x19 uv-coated 350gsm 16pt, 25up... and we need a simple reliable fast speed cutting, minimum 50 sheets / minute, with as much automation and as little operator. Let's say we are not worried right now about sorting. It just have to take a huge stack (250 minimum sheets) and just quickly cut it. On a wish list - some sort of the on the fly print shift correction...

so the only 2 options I was able to find is Duplo-745 (but lacking speed), and some kind of a Rollem system (but was not able yet to determine model and options).

But those solutions are roughly rounding $100k and $150k respectively...

does it really take $150k to cut business cards??? are there alternatives?

Check out Thermotypes new machine. around $ 90,000.00 but it is amazing?

 

[onlinestar]

Do you have a link or a model #? Last time I checked they only took 8x11?

 

[ajaylamb]

Re: cutting business cards

We use the Duplo 645 and run both 20 and 30 up business card templates. The 645 has a dedicated business card module that works real well and the cost of the 645 equipped with the module for business cards is quite reasonable. We can do about 1000 business cards in 3 min so pretty productive. We managed to find a machine gently used for around $35K all in. We seriously considered the 745 but found we could get (2) 645s for less money than one 745. MHO...

Hi guys,

I'm trying to price my options to cut high volume business cards (250k cards a day)... so - if for example we print on 13x19 uv-coated 350gsm 16pt, 25up... and we need a simple reliable fast speed cutting, minimum 50 sheets / minute, with as much automation and as little operator. Let's say we are not worried right now about sorting. It just have to take a huge stack (250 minimum sheets) and just quickly cut it. On a wish list - some sort of the on the fly print shift correction...

so the only 2 options I was able to find is Duplo-745 (but lacking speed), and some kind of a Rollem system (but was not able yet to determine model and options).

But those solutions are roughly rounding $100k and $150k respectively...

does it really take $150k to cut business cards??? are there alternatives?

 

[Craig]

This is what we use..
HS-3000-GC - Gutter Cut Business Card Slitter for full bleed Business Cards

Now you can slit FULL BLEED cards with NO problem
It is available in a 8-up format from an 8-1/2 x 11,or a 10-up from a 9 x 12, or a 12-up format from a 9 x 12.
It has 2" high carbon steel self sharpening blades & will accurately cut 1,000 business cards in approximately 4
minutes. It is affordable & will save you time & money & virtually maintenance free
It has a fast micro- side adjustments to move the sheet for an off register job
& will cut any weight sheet that you can print or copy even UV coated sheets.

For the most part is does what it says. We run the cards 20 up on 12x18, guillotine cut the sheets to 9x12 and run them through the slitters. We chose the 10-up model because it gave us more room on the sheets for print marks. The only thing I have found that it will not feed are laminated cards. The belts can't grip the lamination. We run about 50,000 to 80,000 cards a month on them and have had it for 3 years, fFor $3,500.00 it is worth it!

 

[tomlar1977]

Hi guys,

I'm trying to price my options to cut high volume business cards (250k cards a day)... so - if for example we print on 13x19 uv-coated 350gsm 16pt, 25up... and we need a simple reliable fast speed cutting, minimum 50 sheets / minute, with as much automation and as little operator. Let's say we are not worried right now about sorting. It just have to take a huge stack (250 minimum sheets) and just quickly cut it. On a wish list - some sort of the on the fly print shift correction...

so the only 2 options I was able to find is Duplo-745 (but lacking speed), and some kind of a Rollem system (but was not able yet to determine model and options).

But those solutions are roughly rounding $100k and $150k respectively...

does it really take $150k to cut business cards??? are there alternatives?

If I'm getting you right, you need to cut 250.000 business cards each day? If so, I don't think pricing around 100k should be an issue, since you should make some kind of money doing this, and the saving in manual labour will make it up quite fast. We only print 20.000 cards each day, and the machines we have looked at, did not fullfill our expectation, mostly because of the speed (do the calc, if a system will cut 1000 cards in 3 minutes, it would take something like 16 hours to cut your production, assuming nonstop production!) We can cut 2500 cards in less than 5 minutes using our Polar cutting machine, and the machines in our price segment takes ($40k) more than twice as long, and still, as you point out, the sorting issue is not even thought of. Also, all the "small" machines would need the cards to be stepped in one of the directions, otherwise you would get the cards shuffled!

My bet is that you would need some kind of really expensive system, I saw some Rollem system back in 2000 at Drupa, for doing playing cards, I think they have exactly what you need.

Kind regards,
Tommy

 

[onlinestar]

Thank you guys for your input!

Tommy, if you don't mind, couple questions about your Polar please.

Do you have any of the following options:

- optional down holder (to help better hold the stack);
- automatic waste removal (waste drop's down so you don't need to move out trim-offs);
- air-knife option (so nothing sticks to the knife);
- false clamp (helps with smaller trims).

If you have any of these options, are they a must have for cutting bc? are they useful..?

Thanks
Stan

 

[tomlar1977]

Thank you guys for your input!

Tommy, if you don't mind, couple questions about your Polar please.

Do you have any of the following options:

- optional down holder (to help better hold the stack);
- automatic waste removal (waste drop's down so you don't need to move out trim-offs);
- air-knife option (so nothing sticks to the knife);
- false clamp (helps with smaller trims).

If you have any of these options, are they a must have for cutting bc? are they useful..?

Thanks
Stan

Hi Stan!

It's just a plain Polar 78 (we are printing 46x32 cm sheets on Indigo / NexPress), nothing extraordinary about it. How do you handle such a big volume right now, 250.000 cards each day is quite a lot, I'm thinking something like VistaPrint?

Regards,
Tommy

 

[onlinestar]

Tommy I'm sorry for confusion but I'm only setting up a place. How I will handle it is another challenging question!

 

[Buntpapier]

Hi Stan!
If you sell the business cards in 250 stacks (like VistaPrint) and you have 250 sheets in a run or in a ream, the ream height would be app. 8 cm or 3.25 inches. The size of a business card would be here in Europe 2 by 3.5 inches. I am assuming you get 24 to 30 cards on your printed sheet (depending on bleeding, not bleeding, grain, etc.). This are 8000 to 10000 printed sheets a day.
If you use a standard cutter like Tommy wrote, you have to cut and pack thousand little piles a day. This would be 32 to 40 reams a day. A cutter operator cuts for sure ten of this reams an hour. He would have enough time to pack as well.
A cutter has two other positive effects. You may buy the blank paper in a bigger size and cut it before printing. This saves money. And you can cut other jobs easily.
Buntpapier

 

[onlinestar]

Thank you Buntpapier, this is what I started to figure out as well. Just need to make sure I get the cutter with all the right options and don't get the options that don't matter (considering automatic waste removal, additional down clamp, false back gage, air-knife, swivel table).

 

[tomlar1977]

A cutter has two other positive effects. You may buy the blank paper in a bigger size and cut it before printing. This saves money. And you can cut other jobs easily.
Buntpapier

I would say that if you print quarter of a million businesscards every day, you DO have a cutter, no matter what
Besides that, all the "small" autocutters for business cards I've seen, requires some kind of precutting before entering the machine (we just had a machine in for a demo, and it could only start cutting 0,7 cm from the edge of the paper, which is below our print free margin on some of the machines), so don't just calculate the time it can do something of it's own, most of these machines will never just take the sheets directly from the press.

Besides that, I'm still thinking that if WE had to do such an amount, 100K or 150K would not matter anything, since it's big league - and every manual hour counts!

/Tommy

 

[Buntpapier]

I don’t know if you really need to buy a machine with all options. This machines are nice, no question, but they are expensive as well.
You wrote, you print on 13 x 19 inches. For this paper size you need at least a 20 inch cutter. There are for example the Baum cutters (Dayton - Ohio). This machines are made in Germany from Polar and have nice functions and perfect programming. But they do not have functions like swivel backgauge, or automatic waste removal by a mobile front table.
A real cutter starts with an opening of 30 inches. But this cutters are still not equipped with the function you are dreaming about. The things you want are starting with 45 inch cutters. But I am not sure you really need this.

Let’s take a look about the functions.
1. Automatic waste removal (Autotrim)
You need Autotrim if you have bleeding pictures. If you don’t have bleeding pictures and your printed sheet has no gutters, or double trims between the labels, you don’t need Autotrim.
Alternativ – Before the function Autotrim was invented people had to cut labels as well. They where adjusting the knife different. Instead of cutting into the cutting stick, they where cutting into a board. The ream was placed onto the board. After cutting the first direction, you have the strips and the waste together on the board. Then somebody besides the cutter separates the strips from the Waste. And the next step would be cutting the individual labels on this board, You need two people at the machine. And you get a very, very high output.
2. Swivel Backgauge
Swivel backgauge is nice, no question, but you print in small sheets. The rotation you is small as well. In the beginning I would use a card board between the paper and the backgauge to compensate the not perfect print.
3. Air knife
You need air knife in case you have static paper like business cards with UV coating. There is an easy alternative. You take adhesive tape and stick some waste paper (small strips) on the knife. Now the front side of the knife is no more flat. No flat surface, no static energy, not paying big bills.
4. Downholder in front of the knife
As well a nice function, but you can make your own downholder by spending 200 $ and it does the same function.

So, you have 100000 $ under the pillow, then you may buy a nice machine. But……..
Machines are not cheap. And if it comes to paper cutters there is only one name which is the best. This machines have a high price, new or second hand. The price of a second hand machine is the only realistic indicator for a good machine. If the second hand price is cheap, nobody wants it. Don't trust in salesmen's ideas. Everything is gold and perfect.

Best regards
Buntpapier

 

[onlinestar]

thank you!

 

[OkiTech]

Hey guys, check this out!
Sunraise thermographers provide quality machines for over 30 years!!
I had older one of these slitters from the days when we did thermography, thermographer was also made by Sunrize. Got both used, 2 beautiful pieces of equipment, never let me down - made here in USA, any time I had to deal with them - they were nice, friendly and helpful.
There is a video of a new slitter in operation - looks impressive. would work perfectly for digital output or if offset - put same cards in one row, basically, if imposed row of Michael, row of Billy, row of Tina, row of Victor and you get really convenient slitting.

 

[onlinestar]

You know I looked at them but something bothers me about them... For whatever reason I'm not trusting it

 

[OkiTech]

In what sense? There is nothing, not even a tiny bit of a bad thing I could say about my experience. I am a Copier Printer Service Engineer more than a printer, back from childhood I remember helping my father rebuilding car engines as far as my memory go back in the years so I understand mechanics well - those machines are well thought trough and well built - where should be a bearing, there is a bearing, not just a bushing on the shaft like on thermotypes. Every time I called, the line was answered and whatever I needed was taken care of without any reminders. If you think this machine does what you need to, ask for a demo or referral, may be there was installation in your area and you can go and see, better yet talk to an actual user - nothing beats that. I mean - I did not have the same machine but I was extremely happy with every aspect of having Sunrise machines on my floor. After 3+ years of use, I sold them for a little more money than I paid, person who bought them both is happy printer for a last year or so.

 

[onlinestar]

I think their machine is setup for 12 up...? Who prints 12up?

 

[OkiTech]

Nobody prints 12 up unless it is thermography. To my understanding - new slitter is built over their well developed platform that's where 2 pass slitting is coming from. Theoretically you'd need to cut 13x19 or so sheet in 2 and then slit but no worries, if you see that thing in action - speed is unbelievable. We had a customer ordering a 20-30k business cards every few weeks, they were flat - no thermography, PMS Burgundy, As I was adding the cards to the feeder - helper could barely keep up removing the ready ones.

 

[onlinestar]

Thank you! I'll take a look