Deskpack and Illustrator CC2014 - Waiting on Esko, AGAIN!

[WI-Flexo]

Just an FYI for the Deskpack people, or anyone wanting to use launch workflow from AI CC 2014. Working plugins will not be available until September at the earliest. I was told September but we all know how the scheduled release dates of Esko software works. Also trying to find out when Yosemite will be supported but that seems to be an even bigger question mark.

 

[StillWaiting]

Have you installed CC2014? I didn't think that CC2014 was a "re-write" for plug-ins. I guess it time to bombard support/sales guy with questions on WHY?

 

[chevalier]

I can't say that I am surprised really but this has a lot to do with Adobe dev. practices as well. Have either of you seen any of the "Suite 14" stuff yet?

 

[WI-Flexo]

We did install CC2014 and I didn't think it was a "re-write" either so I really didn't give it much thought but transferred the plugins and no-go. Talked with Esko and they confirmed, not supported and won't be until suite14 assembly 2 (~september).

Chevalier-
Wondering why you think Adobe is to blame (Not that I have much love for Adobe these days either!). It seems that most other developers are ready as soon as a new version of software or even an OS (remember Esko and Mavericks support!) is available, but Esko is always months behind. Adobe does have a prerelease program but I am starting to wonder if Esko does not participate and they get their upgrades with the rest of us. Either way its a very sad state of affairs.

 

[StillWaiting]

Does not surprise me one bit that DeskPack is not ready. When CS6 was released it took "them" a full 9 months to update DeskPack.

Suite 14 upgrade? But it's probably not compatible with something...
Unified PDF editor that "they" were talking about 2 years ago... nope... or is it ArtPro+ that is replacing Neo? (I love Neo) Don't need ArtPro or PackEdge.
Unified (adobe) RIP... nope.. Well I guess there is one now. No need to send to Nexus RIP... but some of the screening tech. is different?
Do correct me if I'm wrong...

Love AE but you have to look at every application before upgrade it to use it. And we are now looking to upgrade to the new MacPro's... Thats not going to happen cuz of Yosemite!

And http://www.esko.com/en/products/overview/suite-14/overview/ tells us a lot.

And http://blog.extensis.com/adobe/extensis-compatiblity-adobe-cc-2014.php "Expect free updates for these versions in the coming weeks."

 

[Marko]

https://wiki.esko.com/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=92182617

 

[StillWaiting]

https://wiki.esko.com/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=92182617

Why do I have to log in to see this page?

 

[abc]

Also trying to find out when Yosemite will be supported.

Is there any reason to jump straight on Yosemite?

Just interested.

 

[WI-Flexo]

Is there any reason to jump straight on Yosemite?

Just interested.

I would say there is no MAJOR reason to jump into Yosemite although there are some nice new features like the spotlight update. But I should be able to make that decision for my production team and not be at the mercy of my software suppliers to make that decision for me. And a few weeks wait is no big deal but when we start talking months it becomes an issue for me. The OS is also not the big issue here. My adobe software is the major issue! We will now again be forced to save back artwork we receive (CC2014) just so we can make it work with Esko plugins. That costs our team time and money and IMO is frankly unacceptable with the amount we pay in support.

Marko-
So October instead of September?! I would be pleasantly surprised to see new plugins in either of those timeframes. I won't be holding my breath though.

 

[abc]

Pity the poor product manager, a new operating system every year to test and support

 

[WI-Flexo]

Pity the poor product manager, a new operating system every year to test and support

If I didn't know better I would almost think you are implying that we should stop adding features and innovating applications and operating systems for the benefit of product managers that for whatever reason cannot keep up with the industry.

 

[abc]

Not at all, the landscape is certainly changing though. Who would have thought that operating system upgrades would be free and annual?

Apple certainly don't make it easy for us either, we have no idea when the release dates are, we just hear the 'fall' that everyone else does, it makes forward planning a tad difficult.

 

[WI-Flexo]

Apple certainly don't make it easy for us either, we have no idea when the release dates are, we just hear the 'fall' that everyone else does, it makes forward planning a tad difficult.

Very valid point! The vague release dates benefit NOBODY!

 

[chevalier]

The vague release dates do benefit Apple.

Not only the concern of receiving customer files and having to use the risky practice of "downgrading" the files. Also, workstation replacement sometimes runs into this problem; Apple doesn't make it easy to install an old OS on a new Mac.

 

[macdevin]

Not at all, the landscape is certainly changing though. Who would have thought that operating system upgrades would be free and annual?

Apple certainly don't make it easy for us either, we have no idea when the release dates are, we just hear the 'fall' that everyone else does, it makes forward planning a tad difficult.

How is this like any other product. Both esko and Enfocus are bad about their dates.. We here Q3 or December that turns our to be February. Yes, I would rather have a product that gets released with as now bugs so I understand not stating a date. What I want to see is more of a public statement when you expect it to work, and why if any for the long delay. You have access to the software months in advance. If Apple or Adobe Makes a large code change then let us know. If they make a last min code change then let us know..

 

[abc]

I actually take exception to your statement about Enfocus being 'bad' about our dates, I'm not quite sure what your expectation is. I actually think Enfocus is pretty good, the Mavericks release was soon after Apple released and any customers who talked to support immediately got the option of a beta version to try which also helped us with our QA testing

We always try to release as close to the release of a new Apple OS as possible, and yes we get developer versions, but they change overtime and Apple very often change the 'golden master'. So we have a policy of waiting until release and then testing with the version that Apple ships, the one our customers use. That's the only way we can be sure.

I would love to say when we will be OSX 10.10 compliant, but I don't know when OSX 10.10 will ship.

I'm not going to apologise for waiting and making sure that we deliver a quality product that works correctly on a new operating system. Too many people use PitStop in their daily business for us not to.

Back to the question, why jump on OSX10.10 early. Unless you are buying a new Mac is there any good reason to jump straight on it and put your production system at risk?

 

[WI-Flexo]

Let me first say that I really have no idea what the normal time frame is for updates from Enfocus so this is NOT directed at them specifically. And I for one appreciate ABC being involved in this discussion as it lets the rest of see a little bit of what developers have to deal with!

That being said I think I can clarify what most peoples (or at least my own) expectations are with third party developers. I believe the real frustration comes from a lack of communication as MACDEVIN stated, but moreover it is what is seen as a “reasonable” timeframe to release updates. We know that developers get advanced copies and can test against that and presuming that Apple, Adobe, or whoever does not make any revisions than updates should be available with the release of the OS or App. And if they do make a revision then the developers need time to test against THAT LAST revision. So maybe a week or a month. But having to wait 9 months for my Esko plugins to be updated seems completely ridiculous to me. In the case of the CC2014 release we will be waiting at least 4 months. And the response we get from Esko is well, they just couldn’t be bothered to work on it now when they have a new release coming out in October. Maybe ABC can shed some light on what he believes would be a reasonable timeframe for updates when there is a last minute change. Maybe its too difficult to guess. I don’t really know but 4 to 9 months?!

Here is Esko actual response:
“We have started a QA cycle of the DeskPack plug-ins on the new version of CC and unfortunately our testing has revealed a compatibility issue which we must address first before we can release an update.
*
The release timing of the update from Adobe was far from ideal, so close to our planned release of Suite 14 and after our internal code-freeze.
Therefore we were not able to complete certification of the (customer version of the) Adobe update before our planned release of new DeskPack functionality.”

Now no where in there does it say anything about an Adobe issue. Just that they released too close to a planned Esko update for them to worry about so lets just make our paying customers wait!

Again thanks for being in the discussion ABC and I would LOVE if any of the Esko people on the boards who love to chime in when they think they can sell a product would get involved in this discussion as you are!!

 

[abc]

Can't comment for others, that would not be fair.

My background is prepress, so i've been at the sharp end. I would never update an OS unless there was good reason when I was a prepress manager. Of course if you buy a new Macintosh you don't have a choice so you expect things to 'just work'.

Personally I try and get a PitStop release out as soon to an OS release as possible, or at least have a beta available so customers at least have something.

However if there is a big technology change then that can cause a problem, and of course that's something that is not always obvious to a user as very often it's the same functionality with no additional benefit just with a different technology underneath.

Also imagine what needs to be tested. With Apple releasing an OS every year that's 4 OSX versions we support for Macintosh with PitStop, plus of course Windows, plus multiple Acrobat versions. That's a lot of permutations.

If there is a last minute change it's not just a matter of change some code, test for a few days and then release. There's a bit more too it then that.

Oh and we also try and add the occasional new feature as well

I should point out all opinions are my own and may not necessarily be agreed with by my employer.

 

[StillWaiting]

But having to wait 9 months for my Esko plugins to be updated seems completely ridiculous to me. In the case of the CC2014 release we will be waiting at least 4 months. And the response we get from Esko is well, they just couldn’t be bothered to work on it now when they have a new release coming out in October.

Amen! And I love using car analogies: "Your car has a recall on it that might cause the wheels to fall off, but the parts won't be ready for another 7-9 months while we find someone to manufacture the new part."

 

[macdevin]

I actually take exception to your statement about Enfocus being 'bad' about our dates, I'm not quite sure what your expectation is. I actually think Enfocus is pretty good, the Mavericks release was soon after Apple released and any customers who talked to support immediately got the option of a beta version to try which also helped us with our QA testing

We always try to release as close to the release of a new Apple OS as possible, and yes we get developer versions, but they change overtime and Apple very often change the 'golden master'. So we have a policy of waiting until release and then testing with the version that Apple ships, the one our customers use. That's the only way we can be sure.

I would love to say when we will be OSX 10.10 compliant, but I don't know when OSX 10.10 will ship.

I'm not going to apologise for waiting and making sure that we deliver a quality product that works correctly on a new operating system. Too many people use PitStop in their daily business for us not to.

Back to the question, why jump on OSX10.10 early. Unless you are buying a new Mac is there any good reason to jump straight on it and put your production system at risk?

When I said 'bad about Dates" I'm Referring to you guys publicly stating a date on when the new version in coming out. You complained that apple gives this "Fall" I don't know of many companies that announce a new version 6-9 months out and give a more exact frame.

Now enfocus is much better then most software vendors in getting a release out soon after, but they don't publicly state if their current version will run. Yes you can call support, but why not just post that information on the web site..

The only reason were forced to upgrade was new computer.. Shame on Apple. But it is what it is.