Envelope printing saga with Riso ComColor-- Looking at iJet NXT or Mach6

SPP-ShaneC

Member
We have had quite the saga in the last year in our Fort Wayne, IN based print-shop. We previously ran all envelopes on two Xante Impressia units, and while we've had our share of issues and service needs, I've been able to do most repairs personally and they were generally very reliable. These units had gotten old and the lasers on both units went out about a month apart. Very costly to fix. We were also having major issues sourcing digital stock through the covid period. We spoke with our Canon reps and they sold us a Riso ComColor GD9630 'envelope press'. It turns out, this was NOT an envelope press. Its a paper press that has very limited capability to run envelopes. There are no thickness controls aside from a general 'envelope' setting.

We run over 100 variations of envelopes from #9 and #10 reg, window, peel&seal, flip-stick seal, press-stick and we also run coin, remittance, catalog, booklet, invitation and many others.

The Riso ComColor could not handle this and we have dealt with head strikes like crazy. We have destroyed numerous costly printheads after headstrikes were causing white lines and fuzzy printing. Canon has been out weekly for the past year, and Riso has flown out 3 times from Chicago and Texas. They have never been able to resolve our issues, saying 90% of what we are running is out of scope, and even with regular #10s and such, it only runs very specific inkjet brands. Our regular white wove envelopes we get from Western States also had a ton of head-striking and issues, destroying the printheads. The Riso was WAY oversold as a miracle envelope workhorse, and then couldn't stand up to even the most basic envelope runs.

After much negotiating with Canon, they are taking back the Riso ComColor. Before we looked at the Riso, we also looked at the Mach6 from another company. Canon does not sell the Mach6, but they are willing to take back the Riso and give us an iJetColor NXT. This is likely the route we will go as Canon is paying for it. Our other option is to pay out of pocket for the Rena Mach6.

We do now have a replacement Xante Impressia in-house, but are still struggling with digi-clear stock and also liked the speed of inkjet.

Ive really been reading reviews here on the iJetColor and the Mach6 and see that both have their quirks, positive and negative reviews. Anyone that has experienced both have a preference between the two?

Are head-strikes, white lines, printing quality an issue with either the Mach6 or NXT? I don't like that the iJet NXT doesn't have a drop-tray off the conveyor. What we liked about the Xante is we would load it up and walk away and let it run, and I could run 3 other presses at the same time. The inkjet presses seem very hands on.

Does anyone use Western States envelops on the iJet NXT or Mach6? This is our main supplier and has been for 30 years. Their quality is good, yet the Riso couldn't handle most of their envelopes. I like that both the iJet NXT and Mach6 have thickness controls up to 3/8".

I have read many reviews here and have many notes, but am at a last ditch effort to gather any other real-world opinions before we make a decision.

Thanks so much for any help, advice, feedback or opinions you could offer!

Quick Edit: If the IJetColor Pro 1175P was in our price-range, there would be no question would I would get. I am slightly bummed at the muted quality of inkjet, so if quality is better on the NXT or Mach6, that would be a huge factor too.

Shane Carper
Specialized Printed Products
 
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Craig

Well-known member
What is your volume monthly? I will second the Riso is oversold on envelopes. Don't know about the NXT or Mach6 which are Memjet heads but the 1175P has the closest match to Xante or other xerographic output. Will NEVER match but way better than the Riso. They do have a scaled down 1175 that is more budget friendly which may be worth a look.

I have to add, you mentioned the 1175P being out of your price range. The reality is it wasn't much more than our ComColor GD7330.
 

SPP-ShaneC

Member
What is your volume monthly? I will second the Riso is oversold on envelopes. Don't know about the NXT or Mach6 which are Memjet heads but the 1175P has the closest match to Xante or other xerographic output. Will NEVER match but way better than the Riso. They do have a scaled down 1175 that is more budget friendly which may be worth a look.

I have to add, you mentioned the 1175P being out of your price range. The reality is it wasn't much more than our ComColor GD7330.
We do about 35,000-50,000 a month average I would say.

I would absolutely love the iJet 1175P, that would be my go-to. Do you happen to know what you paid for it? I’m seeing the retail online at $85,000, which is just not feasible, beings our Riso ComColor is $32,000.
 
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SPP-ShaneC

Member
As mentioned check out the 1175, I was quoted half of what you mentioned the retail price of the 1175p.

Thank you! I told the owner that we need to at least explore the 1175 option before just taking the NXT. It looks like the main differences between the 1175 and 1175P, is that one is a smaller benchtop model. That’s all we need. We could get away with the 1175. Gosh, I would be thrilled to get that unit!
 

namelessentity

Well-known member
I would hate running an NXT for that volume. I ran 5000 #10s the other day and it felt like it took forever. The printhead on the NXT also constantly needs cleaning or I get voids.
 

SPP-ShaneC

Member
I would hate running an NXT for that volume. I ran 5000 #10s the other day and it felt like it took forever. The printhead on the NXT also constantly needs cleaning or I get voids.
We do run a lot of envelopes in house. With the MSRP of the 1175P posted online, I thought it would for sure be out of our budget. The NXT is a benchtop model with memjet heads. The regular iJet 1175 is also a benchtop model, with the upgraded technology. Being a smaller benchtop model like the NXT, I’m REALLY hopeful we can swing going to that model.

We do have some customers complaining about the muted print of InkJet, so we have to limit those customers to non-window envelopes and still run them on a Xante Impressia. It looks like the 1175, with the new printhead technology, is a lot better quality wise.

I can only give my recommendations to the boss, but I’m hopeful he’ll go for the higher model. The tricky part is canon wars giving us the NXT in place of the Riso. Not sure what offer they’ll put up on the 1175 or what we would have to pay.
 

TJPrinter

Well-known member
We do have some customers complaining about the muted print of InkJet, so we have to limit those customers to non-window envelopes and still run them on a Xante Impressia. It looks like the 1175, with the new printhead technology, is a lot better quality wise.
This muted color is what still keeps me away from Memjet printers. I like the samples that I got from the HP FI-1000 print head just like Craig said, closest to the Xante or other toner based printers. There are others that have the HP FI-1000 head you may want to look at like Postmark. I thought that these Memjet printers were in the $18,000 range, not really close to the $32,000 you spent on the Riso. Please post what you go with, I'd like to know how it turns out since I'm still looking too.

 

Craig

Well-known member
With the 1175P we find coated pantone colors work out well. Most are fairly close and we have yet to have a customer complain. If you do a lot of fine text that will be an issue. I'm talking about 7pt and less and the super thin fonts.
 
As with ALL INKJET machines like the iJet, the quality isn’t the best but in most cases acceptable. If the machine cost is high to you then you probably won’t like the cost of keeping it running. Print heads are expensive and you will never get near as many envelopes run through as they claim you will before replacement is required. If you are running decent amounts of coverage then ink will cost you another big chunk.

Unfortunately there is no perfect solution for printing envelopes. We have 3 options in our shop (Offset, iJet and we can even run some on our Konica) and we still run into situations where we need a better option.
 

keb1019

Member
We have always run envelopes on the offset press, however, we have decided it is now time to bite the bullet and move away from the press and have been tirelessly researching our options. We have been impressed with the quality of toner vs ink (Xante Enpress or the SP1360.) but the reviews for the Xante seem pretty discouraging and no clear advantage to the 1360/OKI machine. We then looked into the Quadient Mach6, Colordyne1800S and Rapidcolor 1170 for ink but again, haven't gotten a clear view of reviews.
The colors seem to POP more with the toner machines, but we want something that is going to be reliable and also last with quality output. Do we need to sacrifice quality for reliability???

Any advice and review is greatly appreciated.
 

bill kahny

Well-known member
I watch all discussions on here and a few other sites about envelope printing. Bottom line - you need multiple production methods, there's not one size fits all solution.

We use Ryobi 1, 2, and 4 color presses for envelopes with a Secap jet 1 for addressing. I have a Riso Comcolor inkjet, month baled 2 oki lasers with envelope feeders, tried several laser production machines. My current canon c750 with envelope jig is my favorite. You can only load about 125 at a time and need laser safe window env. but it runs great quality with a fiery to do color control. All laser printers will be touchy with curl and glue and have an extra fuser on hand for streaks that develop when you back to paper. My local service guys are great and I can't complain about down time or bad parts that seem to plague other brands. I'm a big pro-pronate of click charges so I haven't looked at other inkjets since the mach-# whatever first came out. The reviews about the hp1175 seem to interest me that's where I would start if I went looking again.

Hope some of that helps.
 

Craig

Well-known member
As with ALL INKJET machines like the iJet, the quality isn’t the best but in most cases acceptable. If the machine cost is high to you then you probably won’t like the cost of keeping it running. Print heads are expensive and you will never get near as many envelopes run through as they claim you will before replacement is required. If you are running decent amounts of coverage then ink will cost you another big chunk.

Unfortunately there is no perfect solution for printing envelopes. We have 3 options in our shop (Offset, iJet and we can even run some on our Konica) and we still run into situations where we need a better option.
You may want to specify that a little better and say Memjet vs iJet. The iJet HP heads are 100% performing to everything they have stated. We are 2,500,000 in on ours and they stated a minimum of 3,000,000 on the heads. We have no signs of any reason they will not go beyond 3,000,000.

Also if you are not pricing for ink coverage that is a mistake on your end not the equipment. It's not any different than having an offset or digital press off contract and you are buying all consumables. More coverage, more ink or toner used, more cost per sheet.
 

SPP-ShaneC

Member
Thank you to everyone who gave input on this! We are actually looking to bite the bullet and go with the iJet 1175P. We printed using two Xante Impressia systems for years and really liked the output color, but it was slow and we now have a hard time sourcing digital window envelopes. They can take 6-8 months to arrive. This was our main reason for going inkjet.

So far I like everything about the 1175, but when looking at samples my only concern is seeing some lines in the print. Is this easy enough to resolve?

With our Riso, lines in the print meant one of two things. Either a spec of dust was on a printhead and it needed cleaned, or it was scratched and needed replaced.

Is the iJet 1175 line similar in that folks have dealt with printhead scratching causing lines in the print?
 

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Craig

Well-known member
Thank you to everyone who gave input on this! We are actually looking to bite the bullet and go with the iJet 1175P. We printed using two Xante Impressia systems for years and really liked the output color, but it was slow and we now have a hard time sourcing digital window envelopes. They can take 6-8 months to arrive. This was our main reason for going inkjet.

So far I like everything about the 1175, but when looking at samples my only concern is seeing some lines in the print. Is this easy enough to resolve?

With our Riso, lines in the print meant one of two things. Either a spec of dust was on a printhead and it needed cleaned, or it was scratched and needed replaced.

Is the iJet 1175 line similar in that folks have dealt with printhead scratching causing lines in the print?
Simple adjustment. On your rip there is a little gear icon on the right side. Click that and a screen will pop up. I believe the tab is HP Advanced (second tab). On that screen at the bottom right there is an adjustment for Die Gap. Increase it if you have dark lines and decrease it for light lines. A little goes a long way so I usually do 1 at a time. Once to adjust click set to the left. You'll get a command screen that will pop up and go away. Once it is gone X out and print to see if it worked.
 

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