Faux Bold and Italic

[Tech]

We still receive new files as well as older files with faux styles fonts. In the past, faux styles are known to drop out or mysteriously revert to plain text. We do everything we can to fix them, but some old postscripts fonts simply doesn't include real bold or italic. Beats me why designers have not switch to OTF yet...but that'll be another thread.

So is this still an issue with current PDF workflow or new versions of InDesign and Quark? Can anyone confirm this has been resolved?

 

[pcmodem]

We too used to change the Faux Bold and Italic to the correct font. We found out when we corrected these that sometimes the typeflow would change not to mention we would spend too much time fixing the files. After some testing, we found we didn't have to change Faux Bold/Italic to the correct font. If for some reason it didn't come out correctly, we would either let the customer know or we would correct the problem at this point. In the end it improved turn around time.

 

[Tech]

I honestly, can't recall the last time we have an issue with faux styles, and hence, I'm wondering if it's been fixed without anyone realizing the change?

 

[MMC]

I don't remember the last time that was an issue for me. The issue now is that sometimes small text in Illustrator that has a small stroke added needs to be outlined before going to RIP or else the stroke gets whacked out... (no pun intended)

 

[Jnsic]

Not every font comes with a Bold, or Italic version. If that is the case, then the font will just revert to plain when RIPping.

 

[Tech]

Not every font comes with a Bold, or Italic version. If that is the case, then the font will just revert to plain when RIPping.

Are you then confirming this problem still exist even when the font embedded in a PDF appear correct with faux style? or are you just reinstating that's what "used" to happen?

I have seen many PDFs even with faux styles printing correctly or at least appears to match PDF file. Hence, I'm trying to find a definitely answer on this age old issue, so I can discard old concerns regarding it.

 

[claude72]

We still receive new files as well as older files with faux styles fonts. In the past, faux styles are known to drop out or mysteriously revert to plain text. We do everything we can to fix them, but some old postscripts fonts simply doesn't include real bold or italic.

So is this still an issue with current PDF workflow or new versions of InDesign and Quark? Can anyone confirm this has been resolved?

This issue has never existed with InDesign: since the first release 1.0 of ID, you can use only the styles that exist in the font... so, no issue in PDF.



The problem is different with XPress: Xpress allows the use of faux styles, but managed them differently, depending of the font and the XPress releases...

Whatever the releases, faux styles always work on screen display and with non-PostScript printers...

... but with PostScript printing, 3 cases are possible:

1- the desired faux style exists in the font as a real style, then XPress replaces the faux style by the real style of the font, and output the text correctly.
For example, an HelveticaRegular "bolded" will be output using HelveticaBold and an Helvetica "italicized" will output using the HelveticaOblique...


2- the style doesn't exist in the font, but something exists that is nearly the same... then XPress replaces the faux style by the nearest style of the font, and output the text with a style that can be correct, or that can be a complete fantasy.
For example, an HelveticaBold "bolded" will output correctly using an HelveticaBlack...
But a BauhausMedium "bolded" can output using a BauhausDemi or a BauhausBold...


3- the style doesn't exist in the font, and nothing exists that is nearly the same:

• XPress 3.x, 4 and 5 cancels the faux style and output the text with the normal font.
For example, an HelveticaOblique "italicized" will stay an HelveticaOblique...
and an HelveticaBlack "bolded" will stay an HelveticaBlack
and a BauhausMedium "italicized" will stay straight.

• XPress 6, 7, 8 builts the style artificially!!!:
- bold by adding an outline around the glyphs, with a thickness calculated from the size of the text
(opening a .PS files in Illustrator allows to see the added outline to the base style: for example, a BauhausHeavy 72 pt is bolded by Xpress 7 with a 2.16 pt outline)
- italic by skewing the glyphs about 12 degrees to the right.


With PDF, AFAIK :

• artificialy built styles give no issue:
- the outline (used for bold) is a feature perfectly handled by PostScript and PDF, and the automatic outline added by XPress 6-7-8 for bolding the glyphs is not different than a manually added outline with InDesign or Illustrator... so, no issue.
- the skewing (used for italic) is not a parameter added to straight text, no... Xpress just skews the glyphs... exactly like the Illustrator distorsion tool does. Again, this feature is perfectly handled by PostScript and PDF, again no issue.

• faux styles replaced by the exact style of the font work in PDF like with any other PostScript printer: fine in most cases, but with surprises sometimes...

• faux styles replaced by the nearest style of the font work in PDF like with any other PostScript printer: result is unpredictable...

 

[Gregg]

Nice reply, Claude!

That's the beauty of InDesign, no options for faking a bold or italic. And if you need to fake an ital you can always skew the text by 10Ë™, or so. It's not a true italic, but can work in some cases.

The issue that I have found, since switching to InDesign, is forced small caps. We have varying results by using the small caps feature, instead of a true small caps font. Sometimes it outputs fine, others times it goes greek on us. I had read that certain workflows, like Artworks, can't handle the forced small caps. Basically, we just stopped using them. Anyone else have similar issues?

 

[Tech]

This issue has never existed with InDesign: since the first release 1.0 of ID, you can use only the styles that exist in the font... so, no issue in PDF.



The problem is different with XPress: Xpress allows the use of faux styles, but managed them differently, depending of the font and the XPress releases...

Whatever the releases, faux styles always work on screen display and with non-PostScript printers...

... but with PostScript printing, 3 cases are possible:

1- the desired faux style exists in the font as a real style, then XPress replaces the faux style by the real style of the font, and output the text correctly.
For example, an HelveticaRegular "bolded" will be output using HelveticaBold and an Helvetica "italicized" will output using the HelveticaOblique...


2- the style doesn't exist in the font, but something exists that is nearly the same... then XPress replaces the faux style by the nearest style of the font, and output the text with a style that can be correct, or that can be a complete fantasy.
For example, an HelveticaBold "bolded" will output correctly using an HelveticaBlack...
But a BauhausMedium "bolded" can output using a BauhausDemi or a BauhausBold...


3- the style doesn't exist in the font, and nothing exists that is nearly the same:

• XPress 3.x, 4 and 5 cancels the faux style and output the text with the normal font.
For example, an HelveticaOblique "italicized" will stay an HelveticaOblique...
and an HelveticaBlack "bolded" will stay an HelveticaBlack
and a BauhausMedium "italicized" will stay straight.

• XPress 6, 7, 8 builts the style artificially!!!:
- bold by adding an outline around the glyphs, with a thickness calculated from the size of the text
(opening a .PS files in Illustrator allows to see the added outline to the base style: for example, a BauhausHeavy 72 pt is bolded by Xpress 7 with a 2.16 pt outline)
- italic by skewing the glyphs about 12 degrees to the right.


With PDF, AFAIK :

• artificialy built styles give no issue:
- the outline (used for bold) is a feature perfectly handled by PostScript and PDF, and the automatic outline added by XPress 6-7-8 for bolding the glyphs is not different than a manually added outline with InDesign or Illustrator... so, no issue.
- the skewing (used for italic) is not a parameter added to straight text, no... Xpress just skews the glyphs... exactly like the Illustrator distorsion tool does. Again, this feature is perfectly handled by PostScript and PDF, again no issue.

• faux styles replaced by the exact style of the font work in PDF like with any other PostScript printer: fine in most cases, but with surprises sometimes...

• faux styles replaced by the nearest style of the font work in PDF like with any other PostScript printer: result is unpredictable...

This explains why I haven't seen any problems since Quark 4 (never had to use v5). Thank you Claude!

 

[claude72]

My pleasure.

That's the beauty of InDesign, no options for faking a bold or italic. And if you need to fake an ital you can always skew the text by 10Ë™, or so. It's not a true italic, but can work in some cases.

Yes, and you also can make a fake bold by adding a fine outline to the glyphs...
You're, right, it's not a true style, and a real typograph will kick our ass, because it's a kind of butcher job...
... but when you have a damned customer that absolutely wants a bold or an italic on a font that don't have them, it's an easy way to get peace!
(surely a better way than to rip him off )

The issue that I have found, since switching to InDesign, is forced small caps.

Forced small caps are only reduced caps... both InDesign and XPress make artificial small caps with 75% reduction by defaut (can be change in the preferences).

I also experienced issues with forced small caps:
- forced small caps style disappearing after applying another style sheet, or re-applying the style sheet,
- and I often had some strange replacements of characters in PDF, mostly with accentuated letters, lower case and uppercase...

... the advice is to avoid the use of artificial small caps, and prefer real small caps in an OpenType font...
But if your font doesn't have small caps, simply make your small caps manually, by using real caps that you manually reduce at 75%: in a 20 pt text, make your small caps with real 15 pt caps!!!