Fount trial

[cole]

I have recently started trialling a fount called Impulse RA but not getting anywhere as the screens are filling in. The printer is able to make ready as normal but as soon as the production run starts it slowly starts filling in. Increasing the water or IPa does not help. Yesterday a job with not much image ran fine but as soon as the printer went on lunch(30 min) and restarted the centre of the plate from the grip edge started inking up. We use Fuji plates, IPA 5%, fount4% tank temp 10 degrees and roller temp 28.5 degrees. we use Hostmann and Steinberg inks and the press is a XL105.
When we go back to using our normal fount substidry everything is fine. I am trialling this fount because we get bad picture framing. Any takers, please,please.

 

[Printservedigital]

"When we go back to using our normal fount substidry everything is fine"

Explain your "bad picture framing"

 

[GJOHN]

From my experience, picture framing happens when ink or paer coating breaks down to minute particles and the fount pushes it out to the edge of the paper or the image area. Calcium Carbonte leaching out of paper could be one of the reasons. In the US, founts that are not aggressive, pH 5.0. Conductivity 1500-1700 MMHOS are alleviating the picture framing and piling issues. A meeting with your ink supplier and fount supplier together might be helpful.
George John

 

[Slagneb]

Unigraph makes a fount and sub that are manufactured to help with todays stocks and picture framing. You won't be disappointed!!!

 

[cole]

by bad picture framing I mean a thick layer of ink around the outline of the stock. It gets so bad that it starts flicking.

 

[Mike Herndon]

We had this problem, our alcohal sub was reacting with the ink causing it to break down. The end results was the ink "picture framing" around the outline of the stock on the impression cylinder causing a mess. We reduced the amount of alcohol sub and our ink manufacture added a heavy body varnish to all of our inks to help them transfer. This eliminated our problems.

You can do a quick test- take your ink and drop some in a cup filled with your alcohal sub. Let it sit, then stir a little. If the ink starts to break down then your alcohal sub is reacting to your ink. You can do the same with your fountain concentrate. This is a very crud test but when we did this we saw immediately the alcohal sub was reacting with the ink.

Paper companies are recommending a PH of 4.8-5.5 to combat paper piling on the blanket. A PH lower than 4.5 will pull the carbonate out of the sheet. Because.... the paper is now crap (especially Domtars white wove.) We have never been able to get a fountain solution with a pH higher than 4.5 to work. Usually the gum arabic used to desensitize the plate loses its effectiveness if the pH rises above 5. The region where gum arabic is most effective is around 4.0-4.5 (pretty big window, some say 4.0 some say 4.3 etc etc). Simply put- when we’ve tested a fountain solution with a higher ph combined with an alkaline paper leeching into the chemistry the plate lost its ability to transfer a stable ink film. This is what we've found but every shop is different. What works for "everyone" usually does not work for us in the real world.

Mike

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Enlightenment !!

Enlightenment !!

Gentlemen,


I suggest you read the PDFs I posted -- see Thread: Press Founts is there a Solution

PDFs 5 pages - "What Fount Solution" - date of posting 25/04/2009


Regards, Alois

"From knowledge to competence is a great step --- from ignorance to competence an even greater one "

 

[ink man]

Try Hostmann-Steinberg one step fountain solution Substifix... Have solved picture framing on XL105 here in the USA with that product.

 

[cole]

Thanks for that. We are using this fount(substifix) and have found that it works really well. We are still having the same issue though, but it's a lot better, Are you using Hostmann inks? If so what type are you using.

 

[ink man]

Actually I'm a Sales Rep for Hostmann-Steinberg in the USA. Whoever(salesman or dealer) you are getting our product from should be able to recommend one of our Inkredible series to use depending on the type of work you are doing. However we are just launching a new ink here in the USA, Maxxima, pressman have been loving it... so if you can get your hands on that give it a try.

 

[cole]

We are using H & S impression series as well as the 9500N series used on uncoated stock.
The impression and n-series mists quite a bit on the XL105. What is the breakdown of the maxxima,is it vegetable based or does it have a % of minerals in it ?

 

[ink man]

It is a vegetable oil based set, but the inks do contain a small % of mineral oil that varies per color... Here is a tech data sheet for the inks

 

[gordo]

It is a vegetable oil based set, but the inks do contain a small % of mineral oil that varies per color... Here is a tech data sheet for the inks

Suitable for FM screening?

gordon p

 

[ink man]

Yes it is Gordon!!

 

[duct maestro]

Are you using R.O water? Your alcohol is too high as is your fount solution.
Fuji plates are supposed to be good on an XL, with hardly any picture framing!? What rollers are you on? Does your press run at 15k or 18k? Do you check your roller settings often? Your water temperature is a little high and what's the difference in temperature between duct's and rollers?

 

[lesliegroenewald]

We are running 2in one Fount with Maxxima Ink. The ink dries too quick and seems to emulsify, specially the cyan and magenta. Any suggestions or have you experienced same?

 

[gordo]

We are running 2in one Fount with Maxxima Ink. The ink dries too quick and seems to emulsify, specially the cyan and magenta. Any suggestions or have you experienced same?

Ink is designed to emulsify. Can you be more clear in your secription?

 

[cementary]

I have recently started trialling a fount called Impulse RA but not getting anywhere as the screens are filling in. The printer is able to make ready as normal but as soon as the production run starts it slowly starts filling in. Increasing the water or IPa does not help. Yesterday a job with not much image ran fine but as soon as the printer went on lunch(30 min) and restarted the centre of the plate from the grip edge started inking up. We use Fuji plates, IPA 5%, fount4% tank temp 10 degrees and roller temp 28.5 degrees. we use Hostmann and Steinberg inks and the press is a XL105.
When we go back to using our normal fount substidry everything is fine. I am trialling this fount because we get bad picture framing. Any takers, please,please.

Try to call your ink supplier to comment on you problem with picture framing.
When they won't be able to help and will start blaming fount/temp/printer's water levels/paper (oh, that's their lovin' one) - I'll kindly welcome you at the "hostmann steinberg/huber haters club" to have a cup of beer and a tiny talk how badly we'be been *****d up by their sale's rep's/technicians.