FSC certification

[wordtothis]

yep

yep

...if we planned on making a
claim in the future with that paper.

This is the key, if you do not plan on making the claim, it's not necessary. Thus, it would be a ton of extra rigamarole if you didn't end up making a claim in the future on that overstock and a hassle to try and explain to your auditor. Not to mention, they'd probably give you flack about confusing it with real counts.
All they wanted from us was counts on what came in and went out as certified. Like you've mentioned, if you plan on perhaps making a claim on the leftover stock, then by all means, keep a record, but if not, it would probably end up being a colossal waste of your time.

 

[Craig]

Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't it sound like someone else attempting to FORCE a business to operate in a manner THEY choose? (Extortion anyone?) Kinda like Obama running GM, when will I need to have large photo's of our great leader hanging on the production floor like North Korea or the Chi-Coms? When will FSC papers become the Government approved media that must be used for ALL printing or else you will have to pay hefty taxes for using "Unapproved" media? When will I be fined for not becoming a "certified" shop? Will they force me to go to a government run "Re-Programming" camp to alter my opinions and beliefs if I don't operate they way "they" want?

Can't you see where this is going or could go? It's like forcing banks to give loans to those that can't afford to pay them back.... how could that possibly be a bad idea????

 

[cosmo]

Its a scam, simple as that, why should you have to pay money to show you are trying to help the environment?

They have statred a new system here in Australia for printers to conform to each level of envionmental compliance, no surprise that each level costs money, and each level costs more and more, it can end up costing $20k + to get a logo to say you are doing what you are already doing, printers should get together and make there own compliance standard instead of letting some printing industry body make money off it without actually doing anything themselves except printing a certificate you can stick on your wall.

 

[wordtothis]

Its a scam, simple as that, why should you have to pay money to show you are trying to help the environment?

They have statred a new system here in Australia for printers to conform to each level of envionmental compliance, no surprise that each level costs money, and each level costs more and more, it can end up costing $20k + to get a logo to say you are doing what you are already doing, printers should get together and make there own compliance standard instead of letting some printing industry body make money off it without actually doing anything themselves except printing a certificate you can stick on your wall.

Well, we've kinda done that in the states with the SGP (Sustainable Green Printing Partnership) https://www.sgppartnership.org/though it costs money to be a member, imagine that. -We even charge each other when creating our own systems.

 

[Craig]

-We even charge each other when creating our own systems.

There in lies the stupidity of the whole process. Because I line someones pockets with cash, I am more environmental than you????????????????? That's as stupid as saying if printer A charges more than printer B, his quality MUST be better!

How did we get this far?
I have to pay to prove I am doing what's right?????

Damn Al Gore and his 20,000 square foot mansion! I'm changing all my light bulbs back to incandescent, I'll show em!!!!!! Where can I get a drum of VOC's!

 

[Steve_S]

There in lies the stupidity of the whole process.

How did we get this far?
I have to pay to prove I am doing what's right?????QUOTE]

The Do-Gooders will always have it set up where they cannot be questioned - they are working for the Common Good, so they may have to do some unsavory things like use 10000 gals. of jet fuel to fly to an environmental summit with a fine steward like China, just as an example. (or live in a completely unsustainable home and be driven around in an armored Suburban, as another example)

What we have tried to do, and generally it has worked, is present our clients a big picture view of what we do with equipment and supplies to be good environmental stewards. We express our concerns that certifications often are a "feel-good" mask and that we would prefer to monitor our operations and spend time making sure we STAY in compliance. The clients who really get it, are very appreciative of the explanation and have had no issues continuing their print relationship with us.

 

[Craig]

What we have tried to do, and generally it has worked, is present our clients a big picture view of what we do with equipment and supplies to be good environmental stewards. We express our concerns that certifications often are a "feel-good" mask and that we would prefer to monitor our operations and spend time making sure we STAY in compliance. The clients who really get it, are very appreciative of the explanation and have had no issues continuing their print relationship with us.

Exactly! Why should we HAVE to do anything more than that? Not only does it show you are doing the right thing but it opens an extensive dialogue with the client, you can have a longer conversation with them which may lead to the opening of more doors... more job opportunities!

Atta-Boy Snappy!

 

[Green Printer]

Well, we've kinda done that in the states with the SGP (Sustainable Green Printing Partnership) https://www.sgppartnership.org/though it costs money to be a member, imagine that. -We even charge each other when creating our own systems.

After being invited as member of such a group and then asked to leave after 3 weeks gives you a lot of insight into the BS and hype associated with such groups.

 

[Urbanfresh]

Hi Are you still looking to get certified? Can help through SCS certification systems. Let me know.

Cheers

Kristina

 

[Keith]

crazy idea...

crazy idea...

I've been following this thread with a lot of interest. I agree with a lot and I disagree with a lot of the ideas mentioned. When I started my shop, it was with the intent of using as much recycled paper as I could and just being generally environmentally friendly. I use Mohawk papers 90% of the time which are manufactured with wind-power. When I show my customers the package and other literature from Mohawk, they are pleased and do business with me. Also, I had the intent of getting my certification as soon as I could; but then I saw the price. I understand that if you have a customer that asks you to jump... I certainly have done that. But most of my customers would simply go to the next printer when I try to explain to them why I have to charge more. Which, of course, doesn't make sense because it's usually the public that asks for such certifications. Hopefully, like other technologies, all this green movement shit will come down in price. It seems like a rich man's game right now. Want a flourescent bulb? Costs more. Want a hybrid? Costs more. Want to be green certified? Costs more. I like Craig's idea of us printers creating our own certification. But how do you do it so it doesn't drive-up our operating costs? Form a volunteer council to oversee the organization? Sure, I'd love to help. Any graphic designers want to donate their time to make us a logo? I'm sure anyone of us could find someone (my local collage is cranking out graphic artist like bunnies- I'm sure anyone of them would like to "get their name out there"). Then I guess there is all the rules we'd have to come up with for the certification process. Would we need a green lawyer for that?

I don't think it any of this made sense and I certainly was not trying to make any points. I was simply voicing some of my questions. Neither was I trying to rant, insult or disparage anyone or thing. Ultimately, I just want to see someone design a logo of a press with paper going in one end, and leaves coming out of the other.

I'm tired of typing now.
Keith

 

[meddington]

Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't it sound like someone else attempting to FORCE a business to operate in a manner THEY choose?
(Extortion anyone?)

Extortion? Keep in mind that as far as the printing industry is concerned, the ones forcing the issue are the consumers/print buyers. How dare they extort us!

FSC certification is primarily a means to identify the orgin and quality of a product/production process (extending well beyond paper) and has had a positive impact on forestry practices internationally. Anyone out there blindly trust the forestry industry to operate in a sustainable and ethical manner based on their word? Anyone else require credentials of similar nature from a person or company prior to doing business with them?

Its very easy for a printer to purchase FSC paper without certification, and many clients might be satisfied with this. Others may want to promote that FSC paper is used on their products. In this case, certification is required as evidence of conformance. You can argue the true benefits of this to the printer given the cost of certification, but I really don't understand the paranoia. Its purely voluntary.

 

[Craig]

No complaint with that quote what so ever! It just makes my point that much clearer. FSC certification is for the forestry industry, not the printing industry. Once the paper is made, ream wrapped or boxed there is not a whole hell of a lot more I can do to make it less "FSC certified"! Correct?

Why can't I as a printer promote that fact that the paper came from a source that operates in a sustainable and ethical manner without having to PAY to do it?

It would be the same as saying if I print a brochure for a pharmaceutical company I need to be a member of PHRMA!

 

[meddington]

No complaint with that quote what so ever! It just makes my point that much clearer. FSC certification is for the forestry industry, not the printing industry.

FSC chain of custody certification is about supply chain tracebility... to offer independent, 3rd party confirmation to the end user that certified materials were used in the production process. The chain could stop at any number of places along the way. Since the printer is part of the production process, its often part of the chain. Many other industries use similar traceability certification.

Once the paper is made, ream wrapped or boxed there is not a whole hell of a lot more I can do to make it less "FSC certified"! Correct?

No, but its possible your end product could contain both certified and non certified consumables (an FSC cover stock with non FSC body), in which case you could not legitimatly claim the product was FSC certified. Its also quite possible that a rogue printer could falsely claim sustainable practices in order to attract client. Without independent confirmation, how would one know the difference?

Why can't I as a printer promote that fact that the paper came from a source that operates in a sustainable and ethical manner without having to PAY to do it?

You certainly can. Nothing stopping you there, and many clients are ok with this. . You just don't have a the ability to claim you're certified or use the FSC logo on you products or promotional material, which many other clients might want (or are being pressured by their own clients to provide). Besides, there's more to certification than buying the paper. You couldn't claim you were certified for food contact just because you bought the hair nets.

 

[arsenal123]

many mills were generally practicing sustainable forestry
because it made good business sense, yet they received little or no credit
for their efforts unless they jumped through the FSC's hoops and payed their
money.

 

[maas]

Afternoon

Our heatset plant (turn over $50million) became duel certified last year (FSC and PEFC), I project managed this process which was not all that difficult, i relied initially on our paper merchants to check that the paper work i would be submitting was in order and also on our MIS system which has an inventory management component.

The spinnoff for the company was the ability to tender for work from clients that have a sustainability policy in place as part of their corporate identity (particularly government work)

No matter what you may think of these trends ultimately the market will dictate what route you will need to take.

regards
Maas