FSC Logo and its usage

[bejamshi]

Hi,

I am a bit confused as to if graphic designers can use the FSC logo on their prints if they print on FSC paper.

I am not sure, but I have heard that printers have to be FSC certified first, so that the designer can use the FSC logo on their print.

I would appreciate any clarification on this subject.

Thanks

 

[meddington]

Hi,

I am a bit confused as to if graphic designers can use the FSC logo on their prints if they print on FSC paper.

I am not sure, but I have heard that printers have to be FSC certified first, so that the designer can use the FSC logo on their print.

I would appreciate any clarification on this subject.

Thanks

That's right. The printer needs to be FSC chain of custody certified and its their cert. number that appears under the logo.

 

[bejamshi]

So can they carry the paper and not be certified?
Is that possible?

 

[meddington]

So can they carry the paper and not be certified?
Is that possible?

Sure, anyone can order FSC certified paper, but to use the logo on printed pieces, the printer must be FSC certified, otherwise the chain of custody is broken.

 

[bejamshi]

so i should ask for their number and include that under the logo. Correct?
Thanks so much for your help. Maybe i should find FSC certified printers that are listen on FSC site too?

 

[meddington]

so i should ask for their number and include that under the logo. Correct?
Thanks so much for your help. Maybe i should find FSC certified printers that are listen on FSC site too?

An FSC certified printer can provide you with the correct logo to use (needs to be specific to the paper content as well as carry their specific cert. number). There are specifications on how the logo can be used as well...color, placement, etc. An FSC certified printer can also assist in having the logo usage reviewed and approved by their FSC certifying body prior to use...another requiement. FSC is very careful about protecting there brand.

 

[bejamshi]

Wow that seems like a lot of work to worry about. But thank you for your great valuable input.

 

[Stiv]

Most likely the printer will only give you an FPO to place. I would not give you any of our FSC logos.

It is similar to asking a union shop for their bug.

 

[SlaveToTheMan]

Right, any designs we receive that are to print with FSC logos are supplied with an FPO version or just an indication from the client regarding placement. Once the live art is placed, it all has to route through an internal CSR to check, and then to an FSC person for approval as well.

Yeah, it's a lot of extra work.

 

[Craig]

OK, if it is as much extra work as it seems, are you charging extra to make up for the additional touches the job requires? In other words is there an additional charge to print a job with a FSC logo vs no logo, same job, same paper... everything the same just no logo?

If the cost is the same... why?

 

[zoran]

It is not extra work for designer if they give you FPO. Printer has to go through approval prior to printing piece.
In our case we either provide FPO to designer or we get verbal/written instruction where they want logo placed and based on actual stock we use appropriate logo, send for approval and once approved go to proofs/plates.
Internally we have FSC approval process nailed down really well and it's fast.
In our case we don't charge anything extra for logo or no logo, it's a part of prepress labor and it takes only couple of minutes at longest, as long as you have appropriate info for placement.

 

[pa_rider99]

We just add the logo when the artwork comes in. We charge more for the paper that is it.

 

[Craig]

Just curious, I am under the assumption that the printer has more "hoops" to jump threw, therefore more labor or time involved in the production of the job.

pa_rider99 your charging more for the paper because of the FSC requirements to handle that paper??

 

[Muddy]

OK, if it is as much extra work as it seems, are you charging extra to make up for the additional touches the job requires? In other words is there an additional charge to print a job with a FSC logo vs no logo, same job, same paper... everything the same just no logo?

If the cost is the same... why?

We are FSC certified and unfortunately the market doesn't dictate that we can upcharge for FSC. When we first became FSC certified we tried to recoup some of our costs by adding a premium. This just discouraged people from participating because they saw it as being a higher cost.

I find people talk about wanting to be as eco-conscious as possible but money always gets in the way.

It's become the type of approach now that we say we'll do this extra for you at no additional cost. It sucks but is a fact.

 

[Craig]

See, that's the same market we are in!!! If I have a customer come in and demand 100% PCW paper for a job and I show them the cost difference, 9 times out of 10 they will got the cheaper route.

For for all the $$$ you shell out to be certified, you may not be able to justify it in the end, unless your market will except/expect it.

 

[Muddy]

See, that's the same market we are in!!! If I have a customer come in and demand 100% PCW paper for a job and I show them the cost difference, 9 times out of 10 they will got the cheaper route.

For for all the $$$ you shell out to be certified, you may not be able to justify it in the end, unless your market will except/expect it.

We've found that FSC gets you in front of the client. Cost competitiveness gets you the orders. At least with FSC you have a point of uniqueness over some of your competitors. Often that leads questions about other green practices within your company so you need to be prepared with the facts. You'll likely have some sort "green" practices at your plant. The clients will make it seem like the most important thing they are doing in their lives is saving the world by printing their job on 100% pcw and FSC certified and branded. Then as soon as your cost is $5 higher than Kinkos they will always "get back to you when the files are ready to go".

FSC is a great program with great spirit but it doesn't get you work. It gets you the opportunity to get work.

 

[KevinH]

FSC Logo

FSC Logo

We ask the designer to simply insert a "placeholder" that we replace with the appropriate FSC Logo. It's not complicated, but we do run into some pushback with the precise specifications of the logo, mostly around the size required but sometimes the colors. Nothing we can do about that unless and until FSC changes their requirments.

 

[lamontcranston]

Also, every printer has a different logo so it's best you just start with an FPO.

The FSC people have fairly straightforward rules for the use of their logo. If you've paid them, and you follow their rules, you're golden. If you are reselling the job and you haven't paid them (even if the printer has) you're really in violation.

 

[wordtothis]

How difficult is it for a printer to beocme certified, roughly what length of time?

This really depends on the size/volume of your shop and the relative complexity of your workflow. You also have a leg-up since you obviously do your research first so you'll know what to expect. Creating specific procedures and the like can take days or weeks, training can take the same amount of time. It used to be much easier to get them to come audit a shop, but since everyone and their brother has jumped on the bandwagon, I think most of the auditors are working with a backlog -that might end-up being your hold-up.
Do your DD and get a couple of estimates for the certification, check with some references and be prepared to get stonewalled by the auditors. (They cannot tell you anything about how to implement your system, set it up, or any of that) -you've got to do it yourself. Luckily the FSC is a lot like the USPS in that everything has been documented and proceduralized to death, but it's cataloged on their website... FSCocuments-Forest Stewardship Council
Hope this helps, and remember they want procedures, records and more records.

 

[alan4color]

We looked at becoming certified and elected not to. Our client base did not require it and the few clients who asked were able to work with other option. When we looked at the cost to join plus the continued and possible escalating expense coupled with the additional record keeping it did not pencil out. Also the FSC council seems to give out the permit to anyone as long as they pay the fee: Asian pulp and paper is a good example.
The comments echoed here reflect our experience - everyone is for green as long as it does not cost more. We elected to donate money we received from our recycling of paper and plates to improve a local park the neighborhood could enjoy, rather then dump it into a void with results harder to measure.