Guillotine Booklet Trimming Help!

[TLPSfremantle]

Hi all,

so i'm looking for tips.

We have a Xerox Versant with the Square edge trimmer. All great so far, but we're struggling when it comes to then finishing (trimming) the top and bottoms of the booklet. if the cover has full or moderate coverage the booklets become too slippy. When the guillotine clamp comes down it pushes out the stacked booklets and they cant be trimmed, we have to repeat the process several times until we can get lucky and the booklets still flush. This is passable if we're doing tiny print runs, but anything over 100 and it's not doable, plus it's shocking on the alignment like this.

We've tried putting an elastic band around the small stacks we're trimming, with limited success. We've tried guillotining on both sides of the machine, we've tried larger bundles, smaller bundles, nothing seems to be that FIX.

does anyone have any tips on the matter?

Much appreciated.

 

[auchprinting]

Not familiar with the equipment. Can you increase the pressure on the clamp to hold the book tighter? Look at the direction of the knife when you cut. Does it move left to right or right to left. If it moves right to left, put the books on the left hand side of the cutter. If you are trimming from 11-1/2" to 11", use the reciprocal dimension, and set the cutter for 1/2". Then you can hold the books in place while you are cutting.

 

[Alith7]

try putting a sheet of uncoated paper between each book.
it might help, then the covers aren't slipping on each other, and might provide just enough "grip".
Otherwise, unfortunately, I think you'll have to trim 1/2 at a time.

 

[MailGuru]

If you are trimming the exact same amount off the tops AND the bottoms, you may be able to "counter-stack" the booklets in the cutter (10 where the bound edge is on the right side, 10 where the bound edge is on the left side, etc.). Don't know if this will work. Mostly, our booklets don't have bleeds. When they do, we don't use the inline booklet-maker. We trim the sheets after printing, and then put through an off-line booklet maker/trimmer.

-MailGuru

 

[old guy]

http://shop.printersparts.com/shop/...mps-trimming-guides-for-cutter-back-gauge-46/
try two of these they bolt onto the back gauge and hold the spine edge of the booklets down so they dont pop up when the clamp comes down

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

http://shop.printersparts.com/shop/...mps-trimming-guides-for-cutter-back-gauge-46/
try two of these they bolt onto the back gauge and hold the spine edge of the booklets down so they dont pop up when the clamp comes down

Just make sure you remove them when you're done! I've forgotten a few times myself and the clamp destroys them.

 

[TLPSfremantle]

If you are trimming the exact same amount off the tops AND the bottoms, you may be able to "counter-stack" the booklets in the cutter (10 where the bound edge is on the right side, 10 where the bound edge is on the left side, etc.). Don't know if this will work. Mostly, our booklets don't have bleeds. When they do, we don't use the inline booklet-maker. We trim the sheets after printing, and then put through an off-line booklet maker/trimmer.

-MailGuru

Yeah we've tried that however the margins top and bottom are different, the Versant seems to favour printing low when it comes to booklets, which gives us uneven finishes, but cheers though.

 

[TLPSfremantle]

http://shop.printersparts.com/shop/...mps-trimming-guides-for-cutter-back-gauge-46/
try two of these they bolt onto the back gauge and hold the spine edge of the booklets down so they dont pop up when the clamp comes down

I've no idea what they are? how do they work?

 

[wonderings]

Is the square edge trimmer from Xerox and covered under your service contract? If so I would simply call them up and tell them it is not working properly and let them worry about fixing it.

 

[dabob]

This may be the same answer Mail Guru gave you . . but the top and bottom trims don't have to be the same . . . counterstack them 10 with the spine on the left and 10 with the spine on the right . . . but keep the orientation the same tops to tops - bottoms to bottoms then you are only trimming the tops or the bottoms at one time . . the little "clips" hold down the back of the stack . . . you attach them to your back clamp so they hold the book still while you clamp it - when you put them on be sure you are compressing the stack similar to the clamps pressure and depending on whether you cut on the left side or see which way you orient the spines against the side of the cutter . .. View attachment Screen Shot 2015-11-02 at 9.38.08 AM.pdf

 

[kdw75]

We do this all the time, with high quality booklets. We generally do five one direction, and five the other direction to counter the uneveness. You also have to make sure, and hold the books firmly against the back gauge as you bring down the clamp.

 

[TLPSfremantle]

makes perfect sense, will give it a shot on the next run, i dont think with the IDEAL 6605 you can change the clamp pressure?


Thanks all

 

[Dr Tako]

Okay, so i'm replying to this six years on but I encountered a similar (but different) issue when cutting booklets and when I googled to try and find a solution, this thread came up. Thought I'd leave my findings here in case a future printer also looking for answers stumbles upon this. My issue wasn't so much the sliding (although there was a tiny bit), it was that the corner of the spine gets a little munted/chipped when cutting the top and bottom edges (see attachment). I eventually figured if i opened up the booklets rather than stacking them folded, it overcomes this problem. Granted, it's an extra step before cutting but the finished results are infinitely better. Not sure if this is a solution to the sliding problem too but i would imagine it's worth a try and i didn't see it mentioned?

 

[tngcas]

Okay, so i'm replying to this six years on but I encountered a similar (but different) issue when cutting booklets and when I googled to try and find a solution, this thread came up. Thought I'd leave my findings here in case a future printer also looking for answers stumbles upon this. My issue wasn't so much the sliding (although there was a tiny bit), it was that the corner of the spine gets a little munted/chipped when cutting the top and bottom edges (see attachment). I eventually figured if i opened up the booklets rather than stacking them folded, it overcomes this problem. Granted, it's an extra step before cutting but the finished results are infinitely better. Not sure if this is a solution to the sliding problem too but i would imagine it's worth a try and i didn't see it mentioned?

We just print the books flat, full bleed the tops and bottom and then run them back through the machine as blank sheets w/ a b&w click per sheet to fold them. For an 8.5in x 11in book that means printing on 12x18, cutting down to 11x18 then trimming to 8.5in.

The bw click charge is usually less than the labor involved in opening the books up and for half-size books that's the method anyways. Then we just have to front trim them afterwards. We also square fold a lot of our books so the method of opening them flat after stapling doesn't work.

Also, we've found the books fold faster in-line when we're running them through as bw clicks. Sometimes the speed matters more than the time at the cutting machine.

 

[Dr Tako]

We just print the books flat, full bleed the tops and bottom and then run them back through the machine as blank sheets w/ a b&w click per sheet to fold them. For an 8.5in x 11in book that means printing on 12x18, cutting down to 11x18 then trimming to 8.5in.

The bw click charge is usually less than the labor involved in opening the books up and for half-size books that's the method anyways. Then we just have to front trim them afterwards. We also square fold a lot of our books so the method of opening them flat after stapling doesn't work.

Also, we've found the books fold faster in-line when we're running them through as bw clicks. Sometimes the speed matters more than the time at the cutting machine.

Oh damn, that's smart. Boy i feel stupid now staying back late trimming 150 books. Sigh. Live and learn! Thanks for sharing.

 

[AP90]

We just print the books flat, full bleed the tops and bottom and then run them back through the machine as blank sheets w/ a b&w click per sheet to fold them. For an 8.5in x 11in book that means printing on 12x18, cutting down to 11x18 then trimming to 8.5in.

The bw click charge is usually less than the labor involved in opening the books up and for half-size books that's the method anyways. Then we just have to front trim them afterwards. We also square fold a lot of our books so the method of opening them flat after stapling doesn't work.

Also, we've found the books fold faster in-line when we're running them through as bw clicks. Sometimes the speed matters more than the time at the cutting machine.

We do this with 5.5x8.5 books but never with 8.5x11. Granted we now have the inline slitter to do full bleed but I feel like this would be a big slowdown of production and not as useful for money. Toner getting laid on paper is what creates the value. we've never really had a problem with spines chipping on us but when we do its usually taken care of with a blade change or changing clamp pressure. or even just the stack size can change it usually. But hey, whatever works for your shop! Im sure we do some stuff that others think would be a hassle as well lol.

 

[tngcas]

We do this with 5.5x8.5 books but never with 8.5x11. Granted we now have the inline slitter to do full bleed but I feel like this would be a big slowdown of production and not as useful for money. Toner getting laid on paper is what creates the value. we've never really had a problem with spines chipping on us but when we do its usually taken care of with a blade change or changing clamp pressure. or even just the stack size can change it usually. But hey, whatever works for your shop! Im sure we do some stuff that others think would be a hassle as well lol.

We have an older cutting machine and it doesn't matter how new the blade is, it'll chip the spine no matter what I try. Annoying but I hate giving out books with the chips in them so this method has proven to be the best combo between chasing 'perfect' and balancing speed.

I'd LOVE an inline slitter. We have the front trimmer but we rarely use it because it's unreliable as heck so we just front trim them in the guillotine.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

I'd LOVE an inline slitter. We have the front trimmer but we rarely use it because it's unreliable as heck so we just front trim them in the guillotine.

When you're making full bleed books it's the greatest thing ever. You just take the book off the machine and put it in the box.