Harlequin vs. Illustrator?

[him up north]

We run two Esko Flowdrive workflows (v5.2) with Harlequin rips under the hood (don't know the version but I'm guessing quite old). We use pre-separated pdfs in our impositions, imposed using Preps.

As a company, we have begun moving over to Illustrator CS4 from Freehand. We are finding however that jobs are taking huge amounts of time to rip. Literally hours and hours. This is a situation we never encountered when using Freehand. Is Illustrator vector art (when converted to postscript and then PDF) more complex than Freehand? We're left wondering if the Adobe upgrade path has overtaken the capabilities of the Harlequin.

Has anyone else encountered such an issue?

 

[couriergraphics]

Why postscript to pdf. Why not save as a pdf from Illy?

 

[him up north]

Just a legacy of what we've always done. Workflow started out donkeys' years ago as pre-separated postscript workflow.

 

[zombie]

You need to upgrade your rip.

 

[him up north]

You need to upgrade your rip.

To what? And why?

 

[zombie]

To a newer rip version. Your rip is HQ 5.2, it does not handle properly CS4 files, and it's slow, indeed.
Latest version of HQ I saw from Esko is 7.0, but probably they have 8.x too.

 

[him up north]

Thanks, Zombie.

 

[Gramshi]

... Latest version of HQ I saw from Esko is 7.0, but probably they have 8.x too.

Wrong. Esko 7 is not HQ based.(It's Flexrip and it's CPSI or Adobe PDF Print Engine based)
Latest FlowDrive version is 5.x. No any software upgrade available for FlowDrive.

Try lower PDF versions for speed ripping in FlowDrive.

Edit: HQ and FlowDrive verisons are different. FlowDrive 5.2 is not mean HQ 5.2

 

[maxon]

Esko's Flowdrive is built around Harlequin. As zombie said an upgrade is a must, version 8.1 has an almost same look and feel but is light years ahead from ver.5.
I have no difficulties processing any sort of PDF files thrown at my harlequin (other than Esko) even with transparencies, at least once they pass preflight. Latest quark, cs4, you name it.

 

[Gramshi]

@maxon and @zombie
Please give us a web link for FlowDrive version 7 or 8.

 

[PDL]

FlowDrive's last release version was in 2001, (with that years version of Harlequin under the hood). Although that version was able to process PDF files of it's time, much has changed in the nature of PDF since, especially those coming out of current applications like Ai in CS4. You're pushing new technology through old. FlowDrive is not going to understand many of the transparency and other features of CS4's PDF output. It will either take forever, choke entirely, or even give you unwanted results. I would imagine the PC running the FlowDrive rip is not up to todays standards as well.
I used to install and train people in FlowDrive, so I believe I know of what I speak. Great software, loved it, time to upgrade in order to keep up with the rest of your workflow.
FlowDrive was from Purup-Eskofot, which became Esko-Graphics, which is now EskoArtwork. Get in touch with us, we can certainly provide you with some options.
Packaging and printing pre-production solutions - EskoArtwork

 

[zombie]

All I wanted to say is that he must upgrade his HQ Rip, if his 5.2 Flowdrive is build around it. I know, I've seen, I have RipDrive 7.0 (HQ 7.0). I don't know if higher RipDrive, like 8.x, does exist. Also, I don't know if he can use another OEM HQ, like Xitron 8.x or Compose 8.x in conjunction with FlowDrive 5.2

 

[PDL]

Zombie -
Indeed the answer is to upgrade his rip. However FlowDrive is an old bundled OEM product that includes full Step and Repeat/Imposition layout client with the Harlequin as the under the hood rip. You can not just upgrade the Harlequin portion as the licensing for the FD is tied to the version of HQ built in (vice versa).

All I wanted to say is that he must upgrade his HQ Rip, if his 5.2 Flowdrive is build around it. I know, I've seen, I have RipDrive 7.0 (HQ 7.0). I don't know if higher RipDrive, like 8.x, does exist. Also, I don't know if he can use another OEM HQ, like Xitron 8.x or Compose 8.x in conjunction with FlowDrive 5.2

 

[Gramshi]

dear Zombie, i see your point but FlowDrive a bit different than other HQ based rip systems. FlowDrive uses own OEM version (from GlobalGraphics) of HQ Rip and HQ interface is hidden. So there is no option to upgrade HQ Rip without FlowDrive upgrade.

I guess esko will try sell FlexRip

 

[him up north]

Thanks all for your replies.

I've looked at both Esko and Global Graphics (HQ) websites. Esko do seem to have moved away from Harlequin in favour of FlexRip and Nexus. On GG's website the latest HQ RipServer is indeed 8.1.

Time to get the chequebook out, by the sound of it.

 

[printnewb]

True Adobe PS

True Adobe PS

Replace the old Harlequin (PS clone) with a real Adobe PostScript RIP with the Adobe PDF Print Engine. Many brands available just make sure it's Adobe licensed.
Probably cost a little more but worth it.

Printnewb

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Is your art worlk the same as years ago? Illustrator as software does not make more complex files than Freehand, but design today includes more and more complex elements. Adding a "simple" drop shadow or various other effects, introduces transparency, and may mean that many raster objects are created as you print.

You may find ungrouping objects before printing may speed things up, this is an old trick to let the rip float less information while ripping.

(Oops, that was a really old thread)

 

[prepressing]

We can probably help solve your issue. It sounds like as someone else mentioned you are having speed and compatibilty issues which probably means the RIP needs to be updated.

I too would question why PS then PDF, but no matter what your workflow is the files should still go through as long as they are a supported format. If you are having issues you may want to download and test the latest TIFF Harlequin RIP. You can do so from the following link:

Harlequin RIP Demo, RTI Harlequin Demo TIFF, Epson, HP, CTP Platesetter RIP Software

I would recommend testing the latest version of the RIP on a separate computer (one other than your current RIP computers) to see if it processes your files any faster. Or if you like you can send your PS or PDF files into support at rti-rips.com (replace at with @)and we can test them in the latest v.8.1 RIP to see how long it takes to process the files. There are several different ways to resolve the issue if the files process through v.8 correctly. The first method is to upgrade both of your existing RIPs. This would probably be the most expensive solution. The second method is to upgrade one of the RIPs and then have the newer RIP output TIFF files to the second RIP. The third is to purchase a new TIFF RIP-Kit v.8.1 that would allow you to output TIFF files to each existing RIP. This would probably be the least expensive way to solve the problem, but you would need to keep both of your existing RIPs on the network and outputting to the devices.

You may not have a compatibility or a speed issue, but that is why I would recommend downloading the demo version to see if it solves your issues. It sounds like from your post you are using a fairly old version of the Harlequin RIP so it is probably due for an upgrade (especially if you plan on using CS4 or even later moving up to CS5).