Heid QM DI - Pros? Cons?

[ScotJ]

I've been looking at a few QM DI machines as an entry to the offset market. I'm flopping back and forth between this and digital.

We'll be printing mainly flyers and biz cards- quantitys of 1000, 2500 & 5000.

A few questions:

- How many wasted sheets do you have per run with this unit?
- How thick can you print on it?
- How hard is it to get support and service now that Heid no longer makes DI machines?
- Are there any major down sides to this machine?

Thanks in advance!

 

[rbailleu]

the qmdi is a great machine for the money. obviously the plus and pro machines are more money, but better presses. if you could find a late model low mileage machine with a new rip you will be doing well.
it will print 12 pt. the comparison between digital and the di is really not a good one. they can both do what they do well. if you truely need 1000+ in color 10+ times a day. then you need a press di or conventional. if you only need the quantities 10 times a week, maybe then you should go digital. setup can be 20 sheets it can be 400 depending on the image and the last image for ink profile. Heidelberg will service these for awhile yet. so will others. down side is plate cost and general maintenance. but copiers are down constantly. the 1996 di we had was down 4 days in 2 years. 3 days one time and 1 another. we bought it used and it was fine.

 

[ScotJ]

the qmdi is a great machine for the money. obviously the plus and pro machines are more money, but better presses. if you could find a late model low mileage machine with a new rip you will be doing well.
it will print 12 pt. the comparison between digital and the di is really not a good one. they can both do what they do well. if you truely need 1000+ in color 10+ times a day. then you need a press di or conventional. if you only need the quantities 10 times a week, maybe then you should go digital. setup can be 20 sheets it can be 400 depending on the image and the last image for ink profile. Heidelberg will service these for awhile yet. so will others. down side is plate cost and general maintenance. but copiers are down constantly. the 1996 di we had was down 4 days in 2 years. 3 days one time and 1 another. we bought it used and it was fine.

Thanks for the response!

I think initially it will be runs of between 1000 & 5000 - 10 times a week, but will pick up quickly. We have a very big customer base in our larger format business and piles have already said they would bring their biz card and flyer business to us.

I thought I recently read online the QM DI can do up to 18pt? Is that perhaps the pro versions only? Alot of customers request 16pt, so having the option would be nice, and alot of digital machines can't do that thick.

For plate charges - do you need 8 per run, or 4? And is around $8/plate an accurate guess at the cost?

 

[Jonelle]

ScotJ,

The QMDI Pro can handle stock thicknesses up to .016".
The Classic and Plus can handle up to .012".

 

[ghabicht]

We have both a QMDI Plus and the Indigo 5500. On any DI job, you will use 4 plates. Unlike a digital machine, the DI prints only 1 side at a time and needs to dry between sides or before finishing. The Indigo prints both sides at once and dries immediately. It will print up to 16pt or 130# cover and the setup and waste is practically nil. On the DI, you can run 16pt but you will have 50-100 sheets of set up on your average job. On the Indigo, you can run 1 sheet, adjust the color curves and then run a second sheet - you can also break into a production run to output a proof or run another job. The Indigo, unlike some of the other digital machines, uses a liquid ink and prints from a blanket, very much like an offset press - that is why it's the only digital machine that prints a sheet that you truly can't distinguish from an offset sheet. Since we bought the Indigo, we seldom run the DI and our customers don't know or care how we produce their jobs. We run business cards and cut them in minutes after they are done. On the DI, you will need to let them dry overnight or at least several hours before you can cut them. The cutoff amount we use to determine digital or offset is about 2500 12 x 18 sheets - any more than that, we will usually run on the DI or move to our Speedmaster.

 

[rbailleu]

quote
Thanks for the response!

I think initially it will be runs of between 1000 & 5000 - 10 times a week, but will pick up quickly. We have a very big customer base in our larger format business and piles have already said they would bring their biz card and flyer business to us.

I thought I recently read online the QM DI can do up to 18pt? Is that perhaps the pro versions only? Alot of customers request 16pt, so having the option would be nice, and alot of digital machines can't do that thick.

For plate charges - do you need 8 per run, or 4? And is around $8/plate an accurate guess at the cost?

you need four plates per side of a sheet. plate cost is what you include in the estimate. depending on your deal with presstek, how many consumeables are in the plate bundle.
but I think we paid like $1300 per roll set. and I think you get 35 images per plate on a qmdi. so you are looking at $9.25/ plate. but that may have changed in the last 4 years.
you might consider a heidelberg sm52-4h and a ctp if you think you will have this much work for it.

 

[ScotJ]

Since we bought the Indigo, we seldom run the DI and our customers don't know or care how we produce their jobs.

I guess this is where I'm a bit confused on the costing.

For example - for 1000 sheet job on the Indigo, your click charge will be around $160 (based on prices I've been quoted)

On the QMDI, you have the plate cost is aroudn $75, ink cost is $30-$40? (guessing) and waste sheets would be around $5.

I suppose its more work for the operator, but is it not still cheaper to run on a DI press?

Also - for us, having neither machine at this time - the DI can be purchased for less than $50k, but a indigo 5000 is substantially more.

 

[akiyama_king]

I guess this is where I'm a bit confused on the costing.

For example - for 1000 sheet job on the Indigo, your click charge will be around $160 (based on prices I've been quoted)

On the QMDI, you have the plate cost is aroudn $75, ink cost is $30-$40? (guessing) and waste sheets would be around $5.

I suppose its more work for the operator, but is it not still cheaper to run on a DI press?

Also - for us, having neither machine at this time - the DI can be purchased for less than $50k, but a indigo 5000 is substantially more.

hi scot i have never run digital nor DI but, According to how id callculated it according to the post above its Less than $40 for Plates , Ink as far as i am aware is just similar to conventional ink and although it depends on image the cost for ink for 1000 sheets will be nothing like what your thinking, possibly down to $10 Depending on image

 

[ScotJ]

hi scot i have never run digital nor DI but, According to how id callculated it according to the post above its Less than $40 for Plates , Ink as far as i am aware is just similar to conventional ink and although it depends on image the cost for ink for 1000 sheets will be nothing like what your thinking, possibly down to $10 Depending on image

Cool, I always budget well over other's estimates so when it comes time to paying the bills I have a bit of a surplus.

As for the plate costs, I was basing that on doing a d/s sheet, so 4 colours, 2 plates per color per side x $9 = $72.

 

[akiyama_king]

Cool, I always budget well over other's estimates so when it comes time to paying the bills I have a bit of a surplus.

As for the plate costs, I was basing that on doing a d/s sheet, so 4 colours, 2 plates per color per side x $9 = $72.

I understand what you mean, About the Double sided work the impression im getting from the type of work your doing is most of it will go work in turn so that you only need one set of plates

I could be wrong as it all depends on what end size most of your work is

 

[ScotJ]

Now I'm more confused? All of the jobs we're going to do is double sided biz cards, brochures, and flyers.

 

[akiyama_king]

Now I'm more confused? All of the jobs we're going to do is double sided biz cards, brochures, and flyers.

I assume you dont know what i mean by work in turn?

Work in turn means you Have one half of the sheet with the front and the other half with the back so you only need one set of plate, Business cards can be done d/s with one set of plate, as can anything that is half or less than half the maximum sheet size of the press

hope this makes it a little clearer

 

[Happyprinter]

We have been running a DI Plus press for a little over 2 years now and they are great presses. We to looked at many options but the DI came out on top for our operation. The pricing on plates you have seen on the form is generally correct but you need to know one thing that will save you alot of money. You can manually advance the plates on each cylinder so you do not waste nearly as much in material thus meaning big savings. Average plate costs for 4 color run is $40. Thats for printing maximum size on press. But suppose you are only running a 8.5x11. Just manually advance each plate and you have saved 1/2 the cost. Thus, plate cost $20.00 for a 4 color job. The work and turn method is also a big money and time saver. As for drying time. We can run business cards on 12 pt c2s and almost immediately turn around and put them back thru. If you have a solid coverage, say black w/bleed, we usually dont have to wait over and hr. and we can put them back thru. Again this is a great machine for the money. There are many other DI options on the market today, but, $$$$$$. The DI can make a great addition to a companys arsenol.

 

[ScotJ]

I assume you dont know what i mean by work in turn?

Work in turn means you Have one half of the sheet with the front and the other half with the back so you only need one set of plate, Business cards can be done d/s with one set of plate, as can anything that is half or less than half the maximum sheet size of the press

hope this makes it a little clearer

Your correct - no idea what that meant. That an awesome idea! The concept of a perfector makes alot more sense to me now as well.


Happyprinter:

What DI do you guys use anyhow?

 

[Happyprinter]

We have a QMDI Plus.

 

[ScotJ]

Is the IR dryer on that unit better than, or equiv to the Ryobi DI? Unfortunatley the Plus is a bit out of my budget.

 

[Happyprinter]

Our DI does not have a IR unit. Honestly, when we were looking for a press everyone said make sure it has an IR unit on it. I have a Komori with and IR unit and it works and performs great on that press. But the Di dries so quick that with just a small amount of powder, we have never had a transfer problem whether it is heavy card or 80# gloss text. We can run large solids and load the stack full and it wont transfer. Some might disagree with me but our experience has been a DI without an IR is just fine.

 

[rbailleu]

you pay more for clicks on the digital for the back side as well. infact unless your dilligent your more likely to run 8.5x11 sheets on the digital for twice the clicks. compared to the di.

plus the digital will cost you in the bindery with more static.