Heidelberg SM 52 vs. Ryobi 525 GX

[curly]

Our company is looking to purchase a new 14x20 press, 5 color plus coater. We have narrowed choice to Heidelberg SM52 or Ryobi 525 GX. Can anyone help us compare these two presses in following area and any other input you might have?
1. Printing on 20-24pt stock: Single diameter imp. cylinder of SM52 vs. double diameter imp. cylinder of Ryobi 525GX (SM52 is optioned to handle upto 24pt stock)
2. Mechanical ghosting: Four oscillating form rollers of SM52 vs. non-oscillating form rollers of Ryobi 525GX
3. Print quality: Ryobi claims print quality is superior to SM52. (600 line screen, crisppier dots, etc)

 

[rbailleu]

Re: Heidelberg SM 52 vs. Ryobi 525 GX

we have a sm52-4h. the older style that maxes out at 16 point. we dont run over 200 lpi. the press will run the stock.

if this is the only material you will be running, or if you are runing alot of it. I would consider moving up to a sm74cd.
I realized that is a 500,000 jump, but 24 point is a heavy board. the press is going to sound like a washboard either way.

have heidelberg and ryobi demo the machines.

I would also consider resale value. 5 years from now if your market changes, whats the press going to be worth in trade.

 

[marty]

Re: Heidelberg SM 52 vs. Ryobi 525 GX

Having run a variety of press old and new, The SM52 will give your a lot of versatility. our Configuration is a 6 Color perfector (4/2) with Aq Coater. Fast make ready for your short run stuff 1000 sheets or less. 15,000 sph production with non stop feeder and delivery For your longer runs. I believe the new machines come with the "Mechanic in the Box " for three years. Durability and resale . are factors to. This is our Third Speedmaster 52. FYI We also have CPC2000 with access control.

 

[and40au]

Re: Heidelberg SM 52 vs. Ryobi 525 GX

One factor you must also consider is service back-up I have both Heid & Ryobi & service on both is quite frankly "up the shit" I don't know what country you are in so can't comment on your situation. have you considered Sakurai or Komori??

 

[marty]

Re: Heidelberg SM 52 vs. Ryobi 525 GX

As far as the Oscillating Forms vs. Non oscillating forms. They do make a difference. Our service and support has been excellent. If running 24 pt. all the time you might consider a CD 74

 

[Leo Caproni]

Re: Heidelberg SM 52 vs. Ryobi 525 GX

I would recommend the Ryobi for several reasons

1. Double diameter impression and transfer cylinders that allow a flatter paper path, less gripper transfers which means less opportunity for slurring and doubling, significantly less chance of marking on heavier stocks with heavy coverage.
2. Oscillating ink forms are available for the Ryobi but not all four form rollers because they don't need them and you can see the difference by performing a difficult (job from hell) print test with same inks, plates, etch and subject matter.
3. You need to do an identical print test on both the Heidelberg and Ryobi, same inks same plates, same etch and you be the judge. I am betting you will like the results from the Ryobi.

 

[marty]

Re: Heidelberg SM 52 vs. Ryobi 525 GX

Leo makes a good point. What your end result expectations are , the ability of your operators, and your production expectations are factors to be considered as well as cost of equipment. Look most everyone makes good stuff, Ryobi , Roland, Heidelberg, etc.If you know your pressroom and how stable it is . By stable I mean good Ink / water / stock compatability.,good maintenance habits, Motivated operators who are not afraid of something new. Either machine should do you right. Service and support will depend on your relationship with manufacturer, and service techs. We are an all Heidelberg / kodak plant and have established good working relationships with our regional offices and Techs so they really take care of us.

 

[marktonk]

Re: Heidelberg SM 52 vs. Ryobi 525 GX

Hey Leo,

You would not have a biased opinion would you?

Regards,

Mark Tonkovich
Heidelberg USA
Product Maanger, CtP & Proofing

 

[tmason]

Re: Heidelberg SM 52 vs. Ryobi 525 GX

Is this the same Leo that used to work for Shinohara?

 

[maddskill]

Re: Heidelberg SM 52 vs. Ryobi 525 GX

I would go with the double diameter imp cylinder over the single. If your printing board stock that is the only way to go.

 

[John OD]

Re: Heidelberg SM 52 vs. Ryobi 525 GX

curly -

I hope you plan to have a demonstration on both machines. Please pay close attention to the time and paper usage during makeready. Also the ease of use that the CP2000 adds. I believe you will be impressed with the SM 52's feeder and delivery which were designed to run at 15,000 iph.

With regard to your questions:

1. Printing on 20-24pt stock - Your Heidelberg Sales Rep or I can supply you with references that run heavy stocks on an SM 52.

2. Ghosting is a concern on particular print jobs. Take one of those to the demonstrations.

3. Print Quality - With Heidelberg's bearer to bearer cylinders, consistent pressure and superior ink train should show you what you need to know during the demo.

Yes, I am bias but the demo will reveal all.

Kind regards,

John O'Donnell
Heidelberg USA
Product Manager Sheetfed, Small Format

 

[akiyama_king]

Re: Heidelberg SM 52 vs. Ryobi 525 GX

i have run both these presses and a B3 Komori all at the same factory. Out of the 2 you have listed i would go for the heidelberg, it is a much more versatile press.
We ran alot of 400 GSM Board but never ever on the ryobi, it maybe that we were unluck with ours but even with double sized imp cyls it marked to death

but i would rather the komori more than the heidelberg, but to be honest the komori was the best for board but was terrible for light stock (NCR, Low Grammage uncoated etc) the heidelberg xcelled in that.

so i think it all depends on what is the most type of work you do, if your running lots of board do not touch the ryobi, and if your going with light stocks go for the SM

hope it helps

 

[Leo Caproni]

Re: Heidelberg SM 52 vs. Ryobi 525 GX

Hi Todd,



Yes, I used to work for Shinohara for many years and switched products. Am I biased like my colleagues from Heidelberg mentioned, well yes I guess so. When you work with a great product you can't help but to be proud and recommend it.

 

[PRINT]

Re: Heidelberg SM 52 vs. Ryobi 525 GX

Hi Curly,

I have experienced almost all the major presses and i would recommend HD SM 52 in over all performance. A SM 52-5+LX with prinect Axis control would make an ideal choice of configuration.

Also it depends what type of board grain you are going to use, Single and double impression cylinders is a never ending story. In todays time one must look for the over all performance of the equipment, service back ups, parts, trade in values after use.

In my view SM 52 is a high performance press which will not dissappoint you in all areas in longer run.


PRINT

 

[garin]

No question, Ryobi 52 over SM52

No question, Ryobi 52 over SM52

The SM52 can only dream of being the press the Ryobi 52 is.
You run both these presses with comparable features and you will see that Ryobi has the best 52 on the planet, bar none! Although, inking, dampening, feeding and delivering are great on the Ryobi, the Ryobi's transfer configuration is the reason the press is superior to the SM52. Now, the Heidelberg CD is another story and is a much better match to the comparable Ryobi.

Oh, did I ad the Ryobi is probably the most robust 52 you will find as well.

As far as 52's Go, Ryobi is is the crown jewel. DO NOT buy a Sakurai.

G

 

[givbob]

The Ryobi IS the machine for you. Have your dealer arrange for a Print Test demonstration.
The results will be significant, and with the double diameter cylinders, you will be doing yourself a huge favor.

All the best,
Bob

 

[erictoray]

Heidelberg SM 52 vs. Ryobi 525 GX

Curly,

If you are going to run board stocks and small sized at that you should look very closely at the KBA Genius 52. Not only is it going to be able to run substrates up to 32 pt but it also runs UV and can be equipped with a coater. Being a waterless press means that you will print clean and have little makeready waste to contend with. Another feature is that the press has a large impression cylinder that will not let the sheet slap or scratch while it goes through the press.
If you have any questions feel free to contact me offline.

Eric Friedman
No. American Sales Manager; Waterless
Toray International America, Inc.
843 693 7949
[email protected]

 

[[email protected]]

who supplies your waterless plates and lasers?

 

[erictoray]

Toray plates are available through KBA North America, Pitman and also The Oldham Group in the US

Any 830NM thermal platesetter can be used with the Toray waterless CTP plates

 

[rbailleu]

didn't I see that kodak was selling its toray plate plant.