How to judge paper quality?
- Thread starter Tradidi
- Start date
A friend suggested wrapping each book individually as soon as it comes off the press. I have seen this done by some publishers/retailers. It adds a bit of elbow grease, but the cost is minimal.
Is anyone out there doing this, to protect their books? Shrink wrap, kraft paper, ..?
Is anyone out there doing this, to protect their books? Shrink wrap, kraft paper, ..?
Ynot_UK
Well-known member
is the Liz Truss lookalike convincing though?
I am currently trialling Munken Print paper, and it looks promising. In researching what makes this paper different, I found this little piece of info:
Can anyone confirm this from experience? If this is true, then it would help me in my search for the most stable paper to use in a challenging environment.
Can anyone confirm this from experience? If this is true, then it would help me in my search for the most stable paper to use in a challenging environment.
narseman
Well-known member
I'd like to visit the book store and look at a few books.
Maybe buy a couple cheap paperbacks, look them over, and see how they might change when brought to home or work environment. BTW.. I use a lot of Soporset. And keep the print room at 40% humidity or higher, for the inkjet printer. Any open paper I just cover up. Not necessarily closed box, but covered. Also, have you tried closed box on your open reams.
Stickman42
Well-known member
You said this earlier in this thread: "Yes, a new ream of paper, when opened up without printing on it, will go wavy overnight when left in my workshop. Although this only happens to the Wheki paper in a short time, other papers go wavy as well but only after a few days or some even take a few weeks."
You have run both laser and inkjet printers and still the wavy problem.
You can buy a small amount of different papers, open them up and see what happens to them before printing. If it was either the paper or the equipment, you should've seen some different results by now.
I wish I had an answer for you. Best guess? I think you should be looking at the environment more closely.
I have come to the conclusion it's a combination of several factors: temperature, humidity, rapid changes in temperature/humidity and paper type/quality.
One type of paper, Polar Offset from the UAE, which btw is the cheapest of all papers I've tried, has been sitting in my workshop for weeks, opened, and has absolutely no problem. Another type of paper, Holmen from Sweden, one of the most expensive and reputable, goes wavy after only a few hours.
Yes, having a controlled environment would probably solve the issue happening in my workshop, but I expect that with the wrong type of paper this issue would pop up when the book leaves my workshop, which in turn can lead to lots of customer complaints. I would rather start off with the most resilient and forgiving paper and sleep well at night, knowing that it will behave for the customer as well.
The only downside, I was hoping to go with a creamy paper, but I cannot find one that is resilient as well as affordable. I have settled on using the white paper that works and is affordable.
One type of paper, Polar Offset from the UAE, which btw is the cheapest of all papers I've tried, has been sitting in my workshop for weeks, opened, and has absolutely no problem. Another type of paper, Holmen from Sweden, one of the most expensive and reputable, goes wavy after only a few hours.
Yes, having a controlled environment would probably solve the issue happening in my workshop, but I expect that with the wrong type of paper this issue would pop up when the book leaves my workshop, which in turn can lead to lots of customer complaints. I would rather start off with the most resilient and forgiving paper and sleep well at night, knowing that it will behave for the customer as well.
The only downside, I was hoping to go with a creamy paper, but I cannot find one that is resilient as well as affordable. I have settled on using the white paper that works and is affordable.
PricelineNegotiator
Well-known member
Shrink-wrapping is quite effective for mitigating humidity issues with paper. We store all blank paper back in the carton it came from or shrink-wrap it and put it on a shelf outside of the carton. I think you should try that out and see how you like it. None of our completed jobs sit naked waiting for pickup. They are all wrapped or placed in cartons and sealed.
The plot thickens.
I had settled on one specific paper, Polar Offset. The rep sent me a sample packet a few weeks ago and it has been sitting in my workshop, uncovered, for weeks and stayed perfectly flat. So I thought this paper would work well for me, ordered a larger quantity, and started printing and binding. Yesterday, towards the end of the day, in a heated environment, I noticed the books started cockling terribly. I also noticed that the cockling was worse along the direction of the spine, which I thought was unusual. So I did a few tests with the paper and it turned out the supplier had given me short grain SRA3, instead of long grain. The packet did not specify grain direction, but the dimensions were given as 450x320, and I believe it is industry standard to list the grain direction first. I queried this with the rep and his reply was: "Unless a specific grain is requested the team would send out the high moving stock lines."
Two problems:
1. I cannot believe any printer would be happy with the supplier just sending them whatever stock is "high moving," especially not if they know the paper will be used for book binding. That would mean quality would be a hit and miss.
2. The sample paper was fine, the larger batch was terrible. I can only conclude that the paper quality is inconsistent. I cannot work with that.
Any comments or suggestions? I am close to the end of my options, budget and tether.
I had settled on one specific paper, Polar Offset. The rep sent me a sample packet a few weeks ago and it has been sitting in my workshop, uncovered, for weeks and stayed perfectly flat. So I thought this paper would work well for me, ordered a larger quantity, and started printing and binding. Yesterday, towards the end of the day, in a heated environment, I noticed the books started cockling terribly. I also noticed that the cockling was worse along the direction of the spine, which I thought was unusual. So I did a few tests with the paper and it turned out the supplier had given me short grain SRA3, instead of long grain. The packet did not specify grain direction, but the dimensions were given as 450x320, and I believe it is industry standard to list the grain direction first. I queried this with the rep and his reply was: "Unless a specific grain is requested the team would send out the high moving stock lines."
Two problems:
1. I cannot believe any printer would be happy with the supplier just sending them whatever stock is "high moving," especially not if they know the paper will be used for book binding. That would mean quality would be a hit and miss.
2. The sample paper was fine, the larger batch was terrible. I can only conclude that the paper quality is inconsistent. I cannot work with that.
Any comments or suggestions? I am close to the end of my options, budget and tether.
Stickman42
Well-known member
Thoughts:
1. As a book printer, I am 99.99% of the time making sure the grain direction of my text stock runs parallel to the spine. This does require me to buy different sizes of the same paper to allow me to accomplish this.
2. Here in the US of A, the SECOND dimension almost always specifies the grain direction. If one dimension is underlined on the label, the underline would take priority as to grain direction. Sometimes the label would specify "Grain Long" or "Grain Short".
3. You really should get this grain direction thing squared away. Otherwise the possible causes of wavy paper could still be due to more than one source.
4. I've never even heard of the option to buy "high moving stock lines"! When I buy paper, it's first line (not job lot), and the weight, size and grain direction are all known and consistent attributes.
1. As a book printer, I am 99.99% of the time making sure the grain direction of my text stock runs parallel to the spine. This does require me to buy different sizes of the same paper to allow me to accomplish this.
2. Here in the US of A, the SECOND dimension almost always specifies the grain direction. If one dimension is underlined on the label, the underline would take priority as to grain direction. Sometimes the label would specify "Grain Long" or "Grain Short".
3. You really should get this grain direction thing squared away. Otherwise the possible causes of wavy paper could still be due to more than one source.
4. I've never even heard of the option to buy "high moving stock lines"! When I buy paper, it's first line (not job lot), and the weight, size and grain direction are all known and consistent attributes.
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