ICP anti mark cylinder film

[Lukew]

ICP film, there's a vast array of different brands out there, silicone beads/glass beads and so on, this stuff is extremly $$$ to purchase, so which ICP film have you found actualy does its job?
The last lot of rolls I purchased was very rough to touch and did a wonderfull job and marking any solids or screens that went near it on coated stocks... Don't you love single diamater cylinders...
so a few I've stumbled accross but have yet to try.

PrintGuard®, Orange Hide®, http://antimarking.com/printguardsheetspremium.pdf
Blue glass from PRI
super blue 2 LT from PRI http://www.unionprint.it/Admin/allegati/Binder1.pdf

Anyone tried either of these or another brand that actually works. I'm sure I'm not the only press man out there that is sick to death of constant marking and inferior films picking up ink during the run and causing marks..
Shinohara is a battle enough with the extremly poor designed perfecting cylinders that mark even with straight printing LOL

 

[Paultheprinter]

Re: ICP anti mark cylinder film

HI there,

used the orange jacket here in the uk about three years ago, put it on the firth unit of a sm74 5 colour, it was s**t, a complete waste of time but the rep told me he knows a guy on a ten colour who loves it. We got about 3000 impressions out of it before it needed cleaning, my issue was that it came pre packed and i wanted about 0.1 mm less, to reduce any contact preassure but at the time it wasnt possible and the rep didnt take knidly to my issues after he spent hours seducing my manager into a trial. On the plus side you can now get the orange ones un packed in a film to apply direct to your pre determined packing of your choice. In the past ten years + i havent found a good substitute for super blue nets on multicoulur presses, yes there a pain in the ass but they do work very well.

Paul

 

[Leo Caproni]

Re: ICP anti mark cylinder film

Hi Luke,

ICP film is pricey and does require cleaning to take off dried ink as well as it wears out in areas. What I used to find that worked well is to buy sticky-back weather stripping material that you seal around the edge of doors to keep out drafts. You jog (inch) the printed sample sheet through the press and place the weather stripping which you can trim into all sorts of shapes on various parts of the wet down transfer cylinders in the non image areas of the sheet to keep the wet image areas off of the small single diameter transfer cylinders.

Another solution is to buy uv inks, uv rollers and install uv lamps to cure the ink before what would normally be a wet down transfer but this is very costly and you can still get mechanical scratching with thick paper or grain short paper.

Good luck mate

 

[Lukew]

Re: ICP anti mark cylinder film

Leo that is a f-----ing brilliant idea.. should solve the massive hassel of having to put an extra sheet of icp film over the perfecting cylinders when you are in straight printing mode to stop marking from a major design flaw, and then having to remove them when perect printing is needed.
You have a PM too maybee you might be able to answer>>

Paul, I looked at one of the ICP films that came standard on one of the perfect cylinders and it is a murky orange, if this is the same stuff as the orange ICP your talking about then yes I have to agree, while on the press it gave numorous marking issues
Not sure if the super blue nets can be used on the shino,, all films have to be double sided taped to the cylinders.

 

[Leo Caproni]

Re: ICP anti mark cylinder film

Hi Luke,

Thanks for the attaboy but I can't take credit for that idea. It was shown to me about twenty six years ago by the operator on a Fuji 65IIP (early name for the Shinohara press brand) in Florida who was having marking issues on the single diameter transfers between units one and two. Sometimes those boys out in the sticks figure out remedies better than factory designers.LOL

Super Blue will work on solid surface single diameter transfer cylinders but require tweaking of their tension and cleaning to work properly. You can not use the Super Blue netting on the first single diameter transfer cylinder in the single-double-single transfer cylinder arrangement on the Shinohara due to the slots in that cylinder that allow the trailing grippers of the double diameter cylinder to open and close onto the sheet in perfecting mode. Presses (Ryobi, Heidelberg, Komori, etceteras) that use vacuum suckers on the trailing edge of the sheet do not need those slots as nothing project above the surface of the double diameter transfer cylinder.

Occasionally, I found that the edges of those slots in the single diameter transfer cylinder had rough edges and were causing marking because the sheet will actually slightly collapse into the slot depending on speed and paper weight. If you take a Dremel tool with a fine sanding disk and kiss-grind the edges of those slots, it may help in those areas but the weather stripping (use the thinnest available and trim the height if necessary) is one of the best remedies I have ever seen.

Good luck.
Leo

 

[Paultheprinter]

Re: ICP anti mark cylinder film

Hi there,

i think its the same stuff,a murky orange. The product was sold as the next sliced bread but failed to deliver. As for the draft excluder which is mentioned earlier, it is a staple addition to most press draws in the uk, i have seen it in five or six companies which i have worked at and its can get you out of the sh*t, but its a one use only for a commercial printer. There have been many occasion ive spent moving this sponge tape around transfer cylinders to get a job through without marking, if you cant use superblues then it may be ur only option but if you do frequent paper sizes changes it s a nightmare.

PAUL

 

[archetype]

I have used the printguard plus jackets with very good results on both SM74 and SM102. At $260 each it is a minimal investment. Less than $3000 to do all the t1 and t3 on a 5 color press. I have had terrible luck with super blues. I felt that they marked the sheet everywhere uniformly which increased the apparent dot gain. I know other pressman that swear by them.

 

[Indexx Printing]

We have both a Heidelberg CD-102 and a SM-74. I have tried both the Orange Jackets and Superblue 2 nets. The Blue nets wor great but if you don. get them on right they will mark. The orange jackets work great for about a month and the as the glass starts to smooth they begin to mark as well. and are really costly. We are currently running Super Blue Blue Glass Jackets. They are the best we have tried and have been on our 74 for about six months. The only thing to remember is that theses things hate harsh solvents such as Regersol light or Red Majic. To clean them we use a product from Allied called Turbo Clean, and nothing else. We saturate a rag with it and scrub the jacket them go back over it with a dry cloth. We are having Killer results.

Thanks,
Todd

 

[dana]

We use the "turbo clean" too, the stuff rocks! Kinda pricy

I've used alot of different antimarking materials

on double sized transfers (komori lithrone 28) i've found the orangehide F300S works the best, only slight scratches due to a curl at the tail. Usually goes away once the get up to speed.

on single sized transfers (komori Spica 28) we had the best luck with the Superblue lt2. performs well on coated text and uncoated text/cover, sucks on coated cover. We get "net marks" which is usually solved by using little foam dots, uline.com #s-9999. or velcro on the nets.

An old timer used webril cheesecloths sprayed with 3m scotch-guard, it worked on coated text and on cover he some times had to use strips of velcro to stop the marking.

I've noticed that the some of the newer presses use skeleton transfers and air blast/vacuum to solve this problem.

-dana

 

[Paultheprinter]

The problem of marking on transfers at some point will become a thing of the past, on the sm 74 cd the tri drums contract to give the most horizontal passage of the sheet as possible eliminating the need for sheet and cylinder to contact and the need for a costly cure. Superblue 2 nets work the best at the moment but i havent tried the glass jackets so watch this space, if it does work i will change from nets after ten years of constant changing and re tightening.

Paul

 

[qaos]

Hi Leo, can you tell me commercial name or brand for that product? Thank you!

Hi Luke,

ICP film is pricey and does require cleaning to take off dried ink as well as it wears out in areas. What I used to find that worked well is to buy sticky-back weather stripping material that you seal around the edge of doors to keep out drafts. You jog (inch) the printed sample sheet through the press and place the weather stripping which you can trim into all sorts of shapes on various parts of the wet down transfer cylinders in the non image areas of the sheet to keep the wet image areas off of the small single diameter transfer cylinders.

Another solution is to buy uv inks, uv rollers and install uv lamps to cure the ink before what would normally be a wet down transfer but this is very costly and you can still get mechanical scratching with thick paper or grain short paper.

Good luck mate

 

[CyanX Ltd]

To whom it may concern;

A really interesting thread.. and certainly a subject I deal with on a daily basis with lots of printers. If anybody would like specific help / product samples etc, please do not hesitate to contact me and I will do all I can. My email address is [email protected]

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