Ink key presetting

[rich apollo]

Ok, so if using a manual system, where the press is supplied with a printout of what to set the keys to, wouldn't that mean that they would also have to set the press to the same sweeps at startup every time and the key openings control the amount of ink going in? Or in other words, with this type of manual system, it would never work if the pressman changes the sweeps up and down according to how he sees the coverage and applies the key presets and starts up?

Yes and no, and I think this is the primary problem that Erik has with the systems. The ink key presets only set the the keys for anticipated ink take-off. I believe the sweep will be left to the pressman's discretion. This means that the volume of ink going into the ink train is inconsistent. BUT, having the ink keys preset, regardless of any shortcomings, still puts the pressmen ahead.

 

[Prepper]

Is it possible then for the pressman to start up with a consistent "average" sweep every time, and prepress can adjust curves in the presetting software, or better yet, the kind that adjusts itself based on what settings the pressman ends up using, and let the key openings do the rest at startup? Would that not get you closer on initial startup?

 

[HKafeman]

Green Printer

Are you sure that each ductor segment has independently variable timing? This does not appear to be the case in the video and I cannot see how it can be accomplished physically with the arrangement. It actually looks to be exactly like the Baker Perkins C.U.I.M. System. I.e. the timing is variable to suit press speed and overall amount of ink, but not variable for in individual segment.

If you are convinced that each segment can have independent timing, then I am very intrigued and can you explain how this can be achieved?

FYI - I used to work at Baker Perkins, but on Control Systems.

Prepper

Yes exactly. The important requirement though is to have a closed loop system OR to have an open loop system that is suitably maintanied and optimsed. As well as Ink Presetting, all the make ready settings, the Ink and the Damp curves need to be considered.

Regards
Henry Kafeman

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Green Printer

Are you sure that each ductor segment has independently variable timing? This does not appear to be the case in the video and I cannot see how it can be accomplished physically with the arrangement. It actually looks to be exactly like the Baker Perkins C.U.I.M. System. I.e. the timing is variable to suit press speed and overall amount of ink, but not variable for in individual segment.

If you are convinced that each segment can have independent timing, then I am very intrigued and can you explain how this can be achieved?

Henry, the way I see it is that the segments are mounted on a non rotating fixed rectangular shaft. I suspect that there is a solenoid in each segment that moves a circular component laterally on that shaft. The outer ring being mounted on a bearing on that circular component.

It is quite clear in the video that the time the segments are in contact with the ink fountain roller is variable. In one part of the video they show the segments engaging the ink fountain roller at the same time but the contact length was different. In another part of the video, its seems that the contact timing can also be different. This would make sense if the activation of the segment is done with a solenoid like actuator and not a mechanical actuation as with the Baker Perkins system.

It is quite a cleaver idea. Have another look and let me know if you agree.

 

[HKafeman]

Eric

Yes that would work. I still cannot spot what you have described as being variable in the video though - to me it looks like the undulations of a standard CUIM arrangement! The varying ink film thickness from the ink keys would result in some variation in the contact for each segment of the ductor.

Although perhaps your spot of the square shaft which appears to be fixed (the original CUIM rollers were mounted on a rotating round shaft with eccentric sections I think) could be a give away.

Perhaps you could tell me at which time(s) in the video you are looking?

I had a quick look for a patent describing the arrangement. But I do not think any of the ones I have found match, but it is difficult to tell from the Chinese or Japanese translations into English that I found online as they evidently do not quite use the right English words.....!

Thanks and Regards
Henry

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Eric

Yes that would work. I still cannot spot what you have described as being variable in the video though - to me it looks like the undulations of a standard CUIM arrangement! The varying ink film thickness from the ink keys would result in some variation in the contact for each segment of the ductor.

Although perhaps your spot of the square shaft which appears to be fixed (the original CUIM rollers were mounted on a rotating round shaft with eccentric sections I think) could be a give away.

Perhaps you could tell me at which time(s) in the video you are looking?

I had a quick look for a patent describing the arrangement. But I do not think any of the ones I have found match, but it is difficult to tell from the Chinese or Japanese translations into English that I found online as they evidently do not quite use the right English words.....!

Thanks and Regards
Henry

On the video, look at 1:21 in that time period and one can see the start of the contacts being the same but the end of the contact points are different. Shows a very nice profile on the ink fountain roller by the disturbed ink film. At 5:35 one can see the variation in the start of the timing. With a electronic driven actuator, one can do anything. Neat.

I found the patent info. US. 5383394 Jan 1995, inventor Izume who is also the president of I.Mer Co.

Strange but in the patent info, they use I. Mar Planning as the assigned holder of the patent. According to the company site, the company was started in 1991 to administer the patents and then I. Mer Co was established in 1993 and the first installation was made that year. So it is a fairly old concept.

 

[Green Printer]

Look at this video and you will see different times and length of engagement.

Printing Automation Systems-I.Mer Co., Ltd-IPC SYSTEM

 

[Bran]

Ink Presetting for older presses

Ink Presetting for older presses

Hi
I came across this thread and last date says 2008! I must inform you that the debate is still very much on and almost all printers from Emerging Nations are looking for this solution of Ink Presetting on older presses. Press percent works on a Mac platform but are there any tested softwares that really work on Windows. Also can anyone help me with the hardware interface with a Komori Litherone that has a card reader?

Hello Ajit, you can visit Printflow to get more information regarding this issue.

 

[rich apollo]

Is it possible then for the pressman to start up with a consistent "average" sweep every time, and prepress can adjust curves in the presetting software, or better yet, the kind that adjusts itself based on what settings the pressman ends up using, and let the key openings do the rest at startup? Would that not get you closer on initial startup?

I would say absolutely. The pressmen can "zero out" the press between jobs. That way they're beginning from a common place. This works well for registration, too. (A caveat, this is realistic only on presses with the appropriate level of automation.)

You have to have a software that is capable of receiving, and using, feedback. Not all of them can do that.