Ink / Water Balance Guage

[rwolfe54]

I'm looking for a digital file to incorporate into our web colorbar. I haven't seen one before but am told it looks kind of like an eyelash
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From what I understand water runs up the channels and cause ghosting on the horizontal part of the bar if the the ink/water balance is off.

Anyone heard / have this?

 

[gordo]

I'm looking for a digital file to incorporate into our web colorbar. I haven't seen one before but am told it looks kind of like an eyelash
____
//////

From what I understand water runs up the channels and cause ghosting on the horizontal part of the bar if the the ink/water balance is off.

Anyone heard / have this?

I think that there is a misunderstanding. I don't think such a thing exists. If you have a look at the PIA process controls catalog: New Publications and Quality and Process Controls Catalogs Released | Printing Industries of America - Printing.org nothing like what you're describing is listed. There's also nothing like what you describe in any of the major graphic art technical books.

best, gordon p

 

[rwolfe54]

After doing some more searching I found this post:
http://printplanet.com/forums/sheetfed-web-offset-discussion/16197-ink-water-balance

More Specifically From:

jlind
Senior Member

There was a test image in the far past made by GATF with the innocuous name of "the QC strip." Don't know if it's around or in a digital form. It was small but let me describe it. There was a solid bar parallel to the cylinder, and then narrow fingers of lines and spaces coming out of the solid at an angle, like 45 degrees. It was important that the lines and spaces were equal width, about 4 mils each. Not enough water, and the fingers would fill in. Too much water and they would look snow-flaked. Probably no place for this target today, but it could be in a color bar.

John Lind



I believe that is what our pressman wants. Anyone have this in digital form?

 

[pcmodem]

Have the person who told you about it, draw it on paper. Then scan it in and post it here. It might help the rest of us to understand what you are looking for.

 

[Alois Senefelder]

The "QC" Control Target

The "QC" Control Target

Hello fellow Lithographers,

The use of QC Control Target demonstrate a visual technique for locating a near-optimum balance point for ink and water-feed rate to the plate.

As the plate becomes increasingly drier, the Ink Grains join together and form Whiskers of ink bridging the non-image between the inked image lines.


A PDF - I hope you find of interest and value.


Regards, Alois

 

[gordo]

Alois Senefelder also sent me some graphics to share regarding this QC target. These images a shown at 10x:

Too much ink relative to water:

In balance:

Too much water relative to ink:

best, gordon p

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Alois Senefelder also sent me some graphics to share regarding this QC target. These images a shown at 10x:

Too much ink relative to water:

In balance:

Too much water relative to ink:

best, gordon p

I suggest a slightly different description.

Too much ink

The right amount of ink

Too little ink

Irrespective of water.

 

[Alois Senefelder]

An Ode !

An Ode !

Gentlemen,

An Ode welcoming Mr Erik Nikkanen's return !!


Yet again - PDF


Regards, Alois

 

[gordo]

I suggest a slightly different description.
Too much ink
The right amount of ink
Too little ink
Irrespective of water.

The original caption read: "These images are arranged to show the effects of either increasing ink feed at a constant water feed (top image) or the effects of increasing water feed at constant ink feed (bottom image)."

You probably have many examples of ink/water imbalance. Could you post images of what you've seen that illustrate the issue?

gordon p

 

[rwolfe54]

Those images certainly look like what was requested. Does anyone have them digitally? If I make this in Illustrator, are there any suggestions on line and gap dimensions for this? Thanks

 

[Alois Senefelder]

QC Targets

QC Targets

Hello rwolfe54,


The QC Targets are GATF Patented !!!

If you want something similar, homemade ! --- Try using a 70% haltone tint, 150 lpi round dot in place of the Diagonal Lines.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

The original caption read: "These images are arranged to show the effects of either increasing ink feed at a constant water feed (top image) or the effects of increasing water feed at constant ink feed (bottom image)."

You probably have many examples of ink/water imbalance. Could you post images of what you've seen that illustrate the issue?

gordon p

Gordon,

Unfortunately I do not have lots of examples of i/w imbalance. As you know my main interest is in correcting the problem and not so much in tracking the existing problem.

Your images show to me, heavy, medium and light ink films.

Gordon, you should not believe everything you read. The original caption. With the process as it exists now, "water feed at constant ink feed" is not possible since the technology is not capable of maintaining a constant ink feed when other variables are changed. Equating a constant ink key setting with a constant ink feed condition is a mistake.

These kinds of results you have shown can be very misleading since the tests are not controlled. The ink feed variable is not controlled. It can lead to thinking that there are relationships that are not really there.

It would be more interesting to me to see the results with a process that has the variables properly controlled, but unfortunately the industry has not gotten to that level of interest.

Why the educational and engineering communities are not interested in studying a controlled process is beyond me. Soon not too many will care about offset. :-( Hell, I am starting to lose interest too.

 

[gordo]

Those images certainly look like what was requested. Does anyone have them digitally? If I make this in Illustrator, are there any suggestions on line and gap dimensions for this? Thanks

Just use the photo in Illustrator as your guide to recreating the graphic then scale it to the height of your color bar. There is no magic to the target - water does not run up the channels and cause ghosting on the horizontal part of the bar if the the ink/water balance is off.
Every printed element on your press sheet is giving you the same information, i.e. snowflaking if ink density is too low and slinging/tailing/misting if ink density is too high. All this target does is provide a constant graphic to display what other elements in your color bar are also revealing.

best, gordon p