Intel Mac + Mac data resource fork

[nickyg]

Hi Forum,

Got a question for you, i have a cd with legacy data, old fonts and old Quark data...

When i load this cd into an Intel Mac, the cd contents appear to have lost their resource fork, therfore showing the data as 0 bytes and unix executable files...however, when i load this cd into an Power PC Mac the cd contents all appear ok and useable

Can anyone tell me why this would happen ?, does the Intel spec mac have a different way of reading the data from cd as opposed to Power PC Mac ?

Appreciate any insight

Thank you,

Nick.

 

[PantherMac]

Re: Intel Mac + Mac data resource fork

Hi Nick,

Sounds like something w/ the filesystem? How old is this Disc? If the disc reads file contents of 0-bytes, there's a problem w/ the client reading the filesystem itself on the disc (assuming those bit buckets actually contain more than 0k).
If you copy the data off the disc on the older Mac, does it 'exist'? Is it "real"? live data you can use? It's possible the older mac is reading corrupted data from the disc (and it truly is 0 k useable data), but that's doubtful.

- Mac

 

[nickyg]

Re: Intel Mac + Mac data resource fork

Hi Mac,

The disk was written in 2006, but the data goes way back to early 2000, or before, some fonts have the creation date stamp as 1993...

Intel Mac > copy data off > broken data, can't use...

PowerPC Mac > copy data off > data can be used perfectly...

This is potentially a catastrophey of biblical proportions !

Nick.

 

[PantherMac]

Re: Intel Mac + Mac data resource fork

LOL! Biblical I hardly doubt (a boon for the local used Mac dealer? Perhaps...)

If you can mount the disc and recover useable Data on the older Mac, the disc itself is intact, and the data did not get corrupted, or otherwise become compromised (obviously...)

The fact that the new Mac cannot read the data on the disc, indicates the issue resides on the newer Mac. The disc itself has not changed over the years, is what I'm getting at.

- It could be that the new Mac can't understand the file system for some reason (there's 101 of those... none I'd suspect across a single product line however).
- It could be that the new Mac's Drive has trouble reading the tracks on the disc (seen things like that before). If you're encountering a physical problem however, I would tend to think there would be difficulty mounting the disc in the first place (optical media tends to work that way)

My most likely suspect is the drive itself having difficulty reading the data off the tracks for some reason. Try it in another (new) Mac. The next most likely culprit I can think of, is a file-system related incompatibility. I wouldn't suspect it if you burned the disc using Stock Apple Hardware/Software, as that would be highly unusual for Apple to not support a legacy product that's only 2 years old. My efforts in that regard, would be spent towards finding out how the disc was written. I have several 2-year old CD's I've used for data retrieval recently (and used 5-year old Discs at my last job), and had nary a problem.

If you can retrieve the data from the old machine, obviously I'd just restore the discs there, and move the data over. I suspect however you're more concerned about the long run - Welcome to reason # 53167 why most shops keep their old Machine's lying around for a few years before actually tossing the kit.

- Mac

 

[nickyg]

Re: Intel Mac + Mac data resource fork

Hi Mac,

Biblical it is, we have thousands of archive CD's / DVD's and if this is going to be a common problem then as i say it's a massive headache...all my intern designers are Intel Macs, so are most of my freelancers...

My thoughts too are as to how the original cd was written....

Now, i've tested the orig cd on a number of Intel Macs, same problem happens, however, retrieving the data from a PowerPC, re-write the cd, the Intel mac see's the data fine...so i do believe / think that this is a 'cd write' issue somehow ?

Any suggestions on a plan forward ?

Nick.

 

[PantherMac]

Re: Intel Mac + Mac data resource fork

> Any suggestions on a plan forward ?

LOL! Yeah, find the bloke that wrote those buggered discs for you!

If you can find out what the problem is (file system type, etc.), there may be a driver or software bit you can load onto the newer Mac's to facilitate data retrieval (Toast Driver?). Even w/ a vast number of volumes however, I would simply dedicate an older workstation on the network as the "unarchiving" station. When user's grumble, use the opportunity to refresh their memory on proper procedures for archiving files. I'd make sure to have an updated document posted handily near the workstation too.

Sorry man, short of some serious detective work (or a lucky file system extension), it sounds like you're fucked. The discs are written, they are what they are. Can't change them. Have to change how you deal w/ them.

- Mac

 

[nickyg]

Re: Intel Mac + Mac data resource fork

Hey Mac,

Enjoyed the dialogue !,

Yep think your right, i'm up shit creek with out a paddle !

Thanks for your input.

Nick.

 

[Shawn]

Re: Intel Mac + Mac data resource fork

Hi Nick

Were they written with Toast or a normal CD burning utility? I've seen problems with older disks packet written in UDF format with the OS9 version of Direct CD. If you're running any OS X software to let you read those images on the PPC macs it's likely that the drivers haven't been updated to work on Intel.

If they are UDF format you may want to do a search around for Intel native drivers. I think that Helios has something for free and a seem to remember a tool for reading packet written DVDs from some camcorders.

Good Luck
Shawn

 

[rich apollo]

Re: Intel Mac + Mac data resource fork

Nick,
Had the same problem some years ago. Had an external LaCie firewire writer that wouldn't read its own disks back in. They'd load up on my G4 laptop without issue. When I got my new G5 with internal writer the problem went away - the internal writer read the disks in without problems.

So, what OS is having trouble, and what OS is not? I don't have any real advice - just letting you know that you're not the only one to ever see this behavior.

rich

 

[nickyg]

Re: Intel Mac + Mac data resource fork

Hey Shawn,

Can't answer how they were written...too long ago by an external vendor !

OK, you mention drivers, what specifically am i looking for ?

Really curious now !

Hope you can help,

Nick.

 

[nickyg]

Re: Intel Mac + Mac data resource fork

Hey Rich,

How you keeping ?

Ok, PowerPC G5 running OSX 10.4.11 or PowerBook G4 running OSX 10.4.11 all appears to be good !

MacPro G5 running OSX 10.4.11 or MacBook Pro running OSX 10.4.11 - unix executable files zero bytes !

Strange ?, however i do like Shawns logic, if the drivers aren't up to scratch then that would explain the issue...seems to make sense to me

Nick.

 

[Shawn]

Re: Intel Mac + Mac data resource fork

Hi Nick

Insert one of the bad disks and then open Disk Utilities. Select the disk or volume and get info on them. If the Partition is a standard Apple_HFS then you're dealing with a normal disk, if it gives you anything else then you've got an idea of where the problem is.

UDF format would mean that you've got a multi-session disk. A search on Version Tracker for "multi session" gives a half dozen utilities for dealing with multi session disks, if that turns out to be the source of the problem.

ISO 9660 would mean that it's reading the disk as Windows format, which could also lead to missing resource forks.

You should also check to see if you get different info on your PPC and Intel machines.

Good Luck
Shawn

 

[nickyg]

Re: Intel Mac + Mac data resource fork

Hi Shawn,

Thanks for the advice...the mystery deepens !

Ok, i done exactly as you have instructed with the following results:

1. Intel Mac, problem disk, Disk Utility reports that the partitions are "CD Partition Scheme & CD ROM Mode 2 Form 1"
2. PowerPC Mac, problem disk, Disk Utility reports that the partitions are "CD Partition Scheme & CD ROM Mode 2 Form 1"
3. Power PC & Intel Mac, good disk, Disk Utility reports that the partitions are "Apple HFS"

So i get the same info on both types of Mac, however, having researched what these references mean i have come to the semi conclusion that something about the way this data has been recorded to disk is not quite right, maybe via PC or other system ....as the CD ROM Mode 2 Form 1 "usually used for computer data, has the same user data and error correction as Mode 1, but with a slightly different layout. Its use is not recommended for compatibility reasons"...

But what i really want to know is what's different between the PowerPC and the Intel Mac that allows one device to see the data correctly and one that doesn't ?

Shawn, if you got any more advice i'm all ears !

Thanks for your help,

Nick.

 

[Shawn]

Re: Intel Mac + Mac data resource fork

Hi Nick

It sounds like the disks were burnt using the extended CDROM XA format, which can let you save a disk with both Mac and PC data. My guess is that on the PPC Macs it's reading the Mac data properly, but on the Intel it's reading the PC data without the resource forks. Mac OS X has supported this format since at least 10.2, so it sounds like a bug to take up with Apple. I'd try opening a support ticket with them and see if they can help.
http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html/
http://www.apple.com/support/contact/

A few more thoughts. My guess, based on the fact that you mentioned backup disks of a certain age, would be that they were written using Retrospect, you might want to check with Dantz (or EMC now) www.emcinsignia.com. Also, have you tried checking the disks under Leopard, just in case this is a bug that has been fixed?

Worst case scenario, you'll need to save an older Mac for data retreival, or buy a few cheap hard drives and copy the data over onto one of the old Macs as a networked backup.

 

[nickyg]

Re: Intel Mac + Mac data resource fork

Hi Shawn,

Again, thanks for your feedback...question for you, is there any way *'we'* could have introduced this behaviour during our Intel Mac build process, let me explain a little, we have 'standard builds' for our design divisions, which reflect their requirements, however they are very restricted in terms of what you can and can't do with them, i.e. you can't download an app and install it !...it works for us so lets not get the forum discussing the pro's and cons of this, but 'could' we have introduced this error ?

Appreciate your thoughts,

Nick.

 

[Shawn]

Re: Intel Mac + Mac data resource fork

Hi Nick

I doubt it was from any restrictions you've placed on your designer accounts. OSX is very good about making sure you get everything the OS needs during an install, even if certain parts of the OS are locked off for your standard user accounts. If you want to test, just go to one of the affected machines and run from an Admin account. You might want to create a new admin account on one of the machines, just to make sure you're starting from a clean slate.

Shawn

 

[nickyg]

Re: Intel Mac + Mac data resource fork

Hi Shawn,

Admin acc - sound logic, i tried that and got the same behaviour...

Don't think i'm really going to get top the bottom of this, so i'll just make a workaround plan.

Appreciate all your help, Mac as well...

Cheers,

Nick.

 

[avongraphics]

Re: Intel Mac + Mac data resource fork

Just had the same problem with a customer with 400gb of data. Do a search in google for typeator 1.2
Typeator is an advanced AppleScript used for setting the type and creator codes common to all Macintosh files. It can set codes based on another file, on codes you type in manually, or on codes stored in any of 9 built-in presets. It functions both as a double-clickable app or a droplet. What's New: Version 1.2 adds the following: OS X Support Protects against errors with invisible files and files missing type/creator codes Various cosmetic fixes

 

[nickyg]

Re: Intel Mac + Mac data resource fork

Hi Avongraphics,

Appreciate the tip for typeator 1.2

OK, i can see how this tool will be useful, but it's not really going to help my situation with fonts...

Cheers,

Nick.

 

[eastppress]

Re: Intel Mac + Mac data resource fork

I didn't read that you might have attempted to open these files through the application. It's my experience that this will solve the problem, resave the file after opening it... Good Luck.