Issue with operator

Visar

Well-known member
Hi All,

I am have a dispute with the printing operators in our litho printing company. We have two 5 colors machine Roland 305 and 705.

They are asking for 200 sheets for make ready and I think this is way to much.

How many sheet is like average for make ready if you are about the print 1000 sheets in total?

Thanks to all in advance for assistance
 

Kees

Well-known member
Hi, I would say that 200 sheets for make ready is quite normal for a single order, in a batch of more jobs with more or less the same kind of print you could do with less (make ready has nothing to do with the total run length).
 

cementary

Well-known member
We'be got 4 man Roland 900 and 2 700.
make ready for one separation is 50. So for 4 color work it will be 200. Some jobs can have more sheets for make ready depending on complexity. And circulation doesn't matter. 200 or 1000 or whatever.
 

curiosity

Well-known member
Visar,

When your operators tell you something that doesn't immediately raise red flags, go with it, unless you already know better.
You can always research their requests at a later time.
That's basically true whenever one person's advice stems from dramatically more direct experience than your own.
So in this case, if they end up using 300 sheets of MR, try not to bust their balls. They might have a perfectly good explanation.

Just sayin'
 

Cornishpastythighs

Well-known member
Visar, do your presses have CIP3 ink key presets? Are the ink fountains and inking system in good condition and maintained on a regular basis. Is your dampening system well maintained and cleaned, All these things contribute to your ability to reduce makeready sheets.
 

danremaley

Well-known member
I agree that 200- 250 is very reasonable. Does the pressman print to gray balance? I helped Life Touch years ago - their make ready was around 300 sheets. (some yearbooks were only 150 copies) I created plate curves based on gray balance and they told me their make ready dropped to 100 sheets - a great savings!

Dan
 

CKL

Well-known member
Visar
Pasty is correct with the maint. questions.

But also watch them make-ready. Who has the most trouble ? What is the exact problem ?
Are color problems related to running inks too heavy or too light ? Possible plate curve issue
Are color problems related to ink & water balance from excessive feeder trips ? Possible mechanical or training issue.

Does the sheet look horrible at 75 sheets ?
The make-ready process can be standardized for your facility and the errors quickly become apparent and can be addressed.

I find most operators want to produce a good product for the company. Meaning if he thinks he needs 400 sheets he really needs 400 sheets. Or He needs someone to show him how to make-ready with 200 sheets or less and get an acceptable product at 100 sheets.
 

schenkadere

Well-known member
That's reasonable. The amount of initial make-ready won't be different whether the run is 1000 sheets or 100,000 sheets.
 

RJ Litho

Well-known member
I am a bit confused 200 makeready? What is this based on . Inline scanner this is possible but a Heidelberg with Alcolor Dampening this is not possible. We work with 500 this is usually quite tight .Let me know what we are doing wrong .

RJ
 

aqazi81

Well-known member
I am a bit confused 200 makeready? What is this based on . Inline scanner this is possible but a Heidelberg with Alcolor Dampening this is not possible. We work with 500 this is usually quite tight .Let me know what we are doing wrong .

RJ
It all depends of the type of jobs that you print and the type of equipment you have.
In my opinion, if you are running magazines or books with similar color schemes and process colors, 1st job of the day takes more sheets to get the color to acceptable level. After that, you just change plates, do the register and run. Colors are more or less in the acceptable range and you can do this in as low as 40-50 sheets.
If you have jobs that need wash ups and have Pantone colors, then you can waste more sheets. 200-500 to get the acceptable results.
Most of my work experience is on conventional presses with very less automation and above mentioned figures are based on the old presses that I've worked on.

Heidelberg Alcolor Dampening System is the most stable dampening system I've seen and worked on. If you are working with 500 makeready sheets on every job then there must be something wrong.
 

turbotom1052

Well-known member
200 sheets per makeready will require in most cases that the pressman flip on the counter BEFORE good balance is achieved. If your printing is down and dirty, hang um and bang um quality then 200 should suffice, provided that you allow the pressman to flip the counter on at his discretion. If the pressman needs supervisor or customer approval before running, or if the particulars of the job (crossovers ect.) require tougher color matches then I would say 200 is not enough. A 200 sheet makeready is assuming that accurate CIP data is available and that the press is in good mechanical shape, well adjusted, and well maintained. It should go without saying that you will need a skilled guy manning the controls.
As mentioned by aqua the first job of the day will usually require some additional paper, along with some additional paper needed for 5th colors with critical PMS matches.
 
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turbotom1052

Well-known member
I am a bit confused 200 makeready? What is this based on . Inline scanner this is possible but a Heidelberg with Alcolor Dampening this is not possible. We work with 500 this is usually quite tight .Let me know what we are doing wrong .

RJ
RJ I don't think that 500 is wrong if your a company that requires very high quality. Supervisor OKs and customer OKs require some additional paper allowance, along with additional time allowance. All the bean counters would LOVE to be able to standardize every aspect of the process, but unfortunately this is just not possible without making sacrifices.
 

robb

Active member
We worked out this formula back in the eighties, and it still is working well now for us:

add 10% to ordered quantity (for press and bindery; we can charge for up to 10% over) plus 100 sheets per color.
 

turbotom1052

Well-known member
We worked out this formula back in the eighties, and it still is working well now for us:

add 10% to ordered quantity (for press and bindery; we can charge for up to 10% over) plus 100 sheets per color.
Thats pretty generous. Is the company that generous with their hourly wages? If so are there any openings???
 
G

Guest

Guest
You cannot have a number set in stone for all jobs, they differ in difficulty- ex: plain line copy vs. heavy solids with crossovers. Perhaps instituting 3 levels of difficulty from low, med, high and follow your press persons guidance within reason. Maintenance plays a key factor in make-ready as well, some shops skimp on maintenance due to workload becoming a priority- fountain solution gets old, rollers don't get set or replaced, basic oiling and cleaning is overlooked. All this impacts efficiency, not even factoring a draft from a door opening, temperature, humidity and weather can affect paper and ink drying times. Of course, skill level comes into play too. You will find that by asking your press persons help as opposed to challenging them as to "why so many"? will get you better results, we are a very proud group.
 

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